tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post1382817011621000924..comments2023-09-15T08:07:28.542-06:00Comments on Western Hero: I'm Straight, and I'm ProudSilverfiddlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-63661078827935621142012-07-07T11:22:56.580-06:002012-07-07T11:22:56.580-06:00I've turned comments off because I have a new ...I've turned comments off because I have a new post that is sure to further inflame those who hate this one.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-84740964267295071022012-07-07T11:22:05.350-06:002012-07-07T11:22:05.350-06:00Jack: You are discussing human history and human ...Jack: You are discussing human history and human understanding, not God.<br /><br />God does not change, people do.<br /><br />Just because a majority thinks it's right doesn't make it so.<br /><br />The Bible is a disparate collection of works, and each one must be analyzed on its own, but also in relation to others.<br /><br />Genocide and slavery are not eternal laws of God. If you read the new testament, slave-traders are condemned along with murderers and adulterers.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-12878437466015107162012-07-07T09:41:45.418-06:002012-07-07T09:41:45.418-06:00Oh and in case it STILL wasn't clear: just bec...Oh and in case it STILL wasn't clear: just because we realize that certain beliefs are just plain wrong, adopting a new believe *does not* make someone a relativist.<br /><br />To be a relativist you have to believe that all morality, truth, or whatever is relative based on time, place, and/or culture.<br /><br />I, and universalists like me, believe that there is universal truth that is true for all men, in all places, in all times.<br /><br />Slavery was wrong in 5,000 BC just as it is wrong now. Dude on dude action was morally permissible in 1680 just as it is now.<br /><br />So how am I a relativist? Just because I believe something different from you? Or are you having a hard time understanding how philosophy evolves over time?<br /><br />The evolution of philosophy (and yes, religion is a part of philosophy) is not about changing ideas just to fit time and fancies. It's about coming to the realization that you were wrong, and that you need to work out the idea so that you discover what is right, viz. Truth (with a capital T).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-85777356052692144882012-07-07T09:37:55.607-06:002012-07-07T09:37:55.607-06:00I already explained exactly how I'm not a rela...I already explained exactly how I'm not a relativist, but I'll explain it again since you seemed to have missed it.<br /><br />500 years ago, slavery was thought to be 100% morally permissible. Today, most rational people believe that slavery is *never* morally permissible, even if the slaves are "treated well."<br /><br />So are we all reletivists because we wised up and realized that slavery is wrong?<br /><br />800ish years ago, humanity thought monarchy was the right form of government, because somehow the monarch was chosen by God to rule the people. Then, 300 years ago (give or take) many rational humans decided that monarchy was not a good form of government. So are we all relativists since we now think democratic/republican rule is best?<br /><br />Maybe only 100 years ago it was morally permissible for a man to strike his wife if she got sassy. Now, you go to jail for it.<br /><br />A little over 80 years ago, we denied women suffrage.<br /><br />And at one point, we all thought that the Bible was meant to be taken 100% literally. Sadly, there are some who still believe that and hold that the earth is only 5,000 years old. But today, most good theologians realize that the bible is ultimately a work of human hands and is open to interpretation.<br /><br />I've spent *years* listening to all of that stuff. I am by no means a theologian, but I would say given my education, I am more familliar with the idea of biblical scholarship and theology than the average person.<br /><br />The questions I'm asking, and the points that I'm raising, ARE in fact within the realm of theological discussion. Do you honestly think that the great theologians of human history didn't ask themselves these same questions?<br /><br />In the case of genocide, you said to me that it was "one place at one time," and you're going to sit there and question MY knowledge of the bible and Christian theology? I'm not sure if you know this, but in the Catholic school system (at least in Columbus), Theology is taken very seriously and we're required to study theology for all four years of high school.<br /><br />Then I spent 4 years at a Catholic college where I had to take more theology classes. So it's not like I have no clue as to what the hell I'm talking about.<br /><br />So are you willing to address the logical inconsistencies that I brought up or not?<br /><br />And create my own religion? I'm actually considering taking you up on that challenge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-83626685112667962942012-07-07T09:30:15.194-06:002012-07-07T09:30:15.194-06:00@FT, do we have to forgive the petit bourgeois for...@FT, do we have to forgive the petit bourgeois for adopting Libertarianism to justify their privilege.<br /><br />Ducky, how about you enlighten us with your rational commentary on why you think you or anyone else is entitled to the fruits of someone elses labor.<br /><br />PS. If anyone wants to read a commentary on the Bible placing the stories in geographical, historical and political context, try "Asimov's Guide to the Bible: The Old and New Testament".<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-13746216928957115222012-07-07T07:17:43.270-06:002012-07-07T07:17:43.270-06:00FT: I used Cooper's coming out announcement a...FT: I used Cooper's coming out announcement as a springboard to discuss our rights under the constitution, not to indulge in prurience.<br /><br />Secondly, you and Jack are blessedly free to believe whatever you want, just don't get pissy when the billions of other Christians don't join your cult.<br /><br />The Bible is a very complex collection of disparate writings, and the study of it has filled libraries.<br /><br />Churches had reached conclusions about the different parts based upon millennia of writings, study and analysis.<br /><br />For example, did you know there are more than ten commandments? Traditional Judaism believes there are <a href="http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm" rel="nofollow">613!</a> <br /><br />Scholars conclude that some admonitions and rules applied only to certain times and places while others were universal. It is generally agreed that The Ten Commandments fall into the latter category.<br /><br />While I appreciate study that is controversial but grounded in scholarship, I have no patience for off the cuff comments like...<br /><br /><i>So, if Christianity is based on the Bible--which it is--then it would stand to reason that an institution created by man can evolve and change according to man's whims.</i><br /><br />This relativism from a man who says he is not a relativist, insists upon it! And then calls himself a universalist.<br /><br />Why not just say "I feel this no longer applies, so I'm excising it from my Bible?"<br /><br />At least have the courage of Thomas Jefferson, who drew his conclusion based upon French Rationalism.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-38233388357652297132012-07-07T06:36:40.617-06:002012-07-07T06:36:40.617-06:00I have to chuckle.
Several people rather loudly ...I have to chuckle. <br /><br />Several people rather loudly proclaimed they were not the least bit interested in Anderson Cooper's sexual orientation, and all that, but it's ironic that whenever his particular subject comes up (much too often for my taste!) it generates a near record number of responses.<br /><br />There's something more than a little whacky about indulging in a morbid preoccupation with the way people live their personal lives -- especially when it has no practical bearing whatsoever on the quality of one's OWN personal life.<br /><br />For myself, I don't care much about such things one way or the other, but <b>I do care –– <i>passionately</i> -- about the very human capacity of wanting, needing and positively <i>cherishing</i> an unwholesome penchant for targeting objects to fear loathe, despise, lampoon and ultimately to PERSECUTE.</b><br /><br />This is not Left-Right issue. It's a human failing all across the board.<br /><br />I believe there are MUCH better things we could and should be doing with our time than constantly tell each other how much we dislike and disapprove of --- <i>whatever</i>.<br /><br />Our country -- our whole world -- is DYING, because we are so steeped in NEGATIVISM.<br /><br />Accusing and blaming others is so much <i>easier</i> than looking inward to try to find ways in which we might improve ourselves. It's easy, but it's worthless at best, destructive at worst.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeFreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-85573226900676696322012-07-07T06:17:40.708-06:002012-07-07T06:17:40.708-06:00Oh WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! SilverFiddle!
Too many of us...Oh WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! SilverFiddle!<br /><br />Too many of us -- in my opinion -- are assuming the Bible is ABSOLUTE, INFALLIBLE, GOD-GIVEN TRUTH.<br /><br />Any intelligent person, WHO BOTHERS to READ the THING in DEPTH and DETAIL would see in an instant that such an interpretation could not POSSIBLY be true, because it makes NO SENSE.<br /><br />One of the poets talks of <b>mind-forged manacles</b> which in one form of "dicta and dogma" after another is exactly what has held humanity in thrall for millennia. Most people do not THINK they simply REACT and OBEY. <br /><br />Thinking is hard work. Having sufficient time in which to think is a great luxury for most, which is probably why most people ho with whatever herd mentality happens to be in vogue.<br /><br />I'm surprised at YOU, because I know you to be much too smart to embrace "canned" thinking of ANY variety.<br /><br />Good morning and HAPPY WEEKEND.<br /><br />~ FTFreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-57984248629851132362012-07-07T05:25:33.244-06:002012-07-07T05:25:33.244-06:00I believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality --...I believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality -- <b>as well as other sexual sins</b>. This is particularly true of the Old Testament laws.<br /><br />However, the New Testament teaches tolerance. <b>TO A POINT.</b><br /><br />A church should no more be forced to perform marriage ceremonies for a gay couple than a church should be forced to perform marriage ceremonies for couples who are not Believers and/or couples who are not members of the congregation. Yes, those restrictions are the norm in most Baptist churches -- and other churches as well.<br /><br />The Methodist Church will marry any couple as far as I know.<br /><br /><b>IT IS NOT THE STATE'S BUSINESS TO TELL A CHURCH FOR WHOM THAT CHURCH MAY PERFORM MARRIAGE CEREMONIES.</b>Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-62519754385426093542012-07-07T05:06:30.493-06:002012-07-07T05:06:30.493-06:00Since there is absolutely no evidence of the capti...<i>Since there is absolutely no evidence of the captivity in the historic record,</i><br /><br />The bible isn't even an "historic record" on the par with Herodotus? Who knew?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-82750862752183345162012-07-07T02:35:07.348-06:002012-07-07T02:35:07.348-06:00SF: No argument that it's a horror story, and ...SF: No argument that it's a horror story, and I am quite over it thank you. Only question is, why worship its author?jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-83430784981903472732012-07-06T22:10:08.928-06:002012-07-06T22:10:08.928-06:00LMy point, Silver, is that the Bible was not writt...<i>LMy point, Silver, is that the Bible was not written by the hand of God, and probably was not even divinely inspired<br /><br />And in case you still haven't caught on, I was criticizing people who believe the bible to be written by God</i><br /><br />Then why are you still hanging around that stupid cult called Christianity?<br /><br />FT: Life is a horror story. Get over it. Why don't you and Jack build your own love shack free from the mean old OT God and start your own cult?<br /><br />If you started from a basis of theological reason we could debate but you guys are off the hook.<br /><br />More power to you, but at least develop a debatable theology first.<br /><br />You go girls!Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-77786606047329058572012-07-06T21:07:31.868-06:002012-07-06T21:07:31.868-06:00Duck, you haven't answered my questions yet. ...Duck, you haven't answered my questions yet. Do that first.<br /><br />The answers to your questions are obvious to any sentient being anyway.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-66828777611323745342012-07-06T20:28:03.346-06:002012-07-06T20:28:03.346-06:00There are parts of the bible are meant to be inter...There are parts of the bible are meant to be interpreted allegorically.<br /><br />------<br />Which books?<br /><br />Exodus? Since there is absolutely no evidence of the captivity in the historic record, what are we to make of it? Little white lie, allegory, literal truth?Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-65884213626940425412012-07-06T20:22:46.494-06:002012-07-06T20:22:46.494-06:00I will just say that I think homosexuals are Over-...I will just say that I think homosexuals are Over-Represented in the media and in Government.<br /><br />And that ain't a good thing.<br /><br />----<br />What is the current level of representation?<br /><br />What is the proper level of representation?<br /><br />Why is it a bad thing?Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-47403380511266359962012-07-06T20:09:03.382-06:002012-07-06T20:09:03.382-06:00PS - Marriage is by name a sacrament of the Roman ...PS - Marriage is by name a sacrament of the Roman Catholic Religion.<br /><br />If gays don't respect that the word is important to a very large group then how can they demand respect in return.<br /><br />Call it something else. I couldn't care less what you do in the privacy of your home or usually out in public with reasonable limits that would be imposed on Heterosexuals all the same.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-2194809237667142832012-07-06T20:05:00.084-06:002012-07-06T20:05:00.084-06:00I will just say that I think homosexuals are Over-...I will just say that I think homosexuals are Over-Represented in the media and in Government.<br /><br />And that ain't a good thing.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-20009951648003852662012-07-06T19:59:41.678-06:002012-07-06T19:59:41.678-06:00Jack,
Denier!Jack,<br /><br />Denier!Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-25258277499306432322012-07-06T19:52:54.274-06:002012-07-06T19:52:54.274-06:00Theresa,
What did Joshua and the Judges do when th...Theresa,<br />What did Joshua and the Judges do when they conquered the peoples of Canaan?<br /><br />And who commanded them to do it?<br /><br />I'm not a relativist just because I think homosexuality is morally permissible. I just think you're absolutely wrong. Not wrong based on your perspective, just plain wrong.<br /><br />I'm a universalist, and I think your condemnation of homosexuality is universally wrong regardless of time or culture.<br /><br />We've been over this before. Your assertion that a creator has the right to take the life of his creation is asinine.<br /><br />What God, omnipotent and unconditionally loving, would ever consent to taking the life of his creation, let alone do it himself?<br /><br />I believe in a God of mercy and love, you believe in a conception of God created by men who were trying to justify their own horrifying actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-16372568509155535512012-07-06T19:49:19.601-06:002012-07-06T19:49:19.601-06:00Leviticus and Deuteronomy, et al. bear such a stri...Leviticus and Deuteronomy, et al. bear such a striking resemblance to the worst aspects of Islamic Fundamentalism ...<br /><br />-------<br />Bingo !<br /><br />Thank goodness that the Enlightenment has freed some of us.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-67037868340529010642012-07-06T19:17:01.775-06:002012-07-06T19:17:01.775-06:00Jack,
Do you believe in a woman's right to ch...Jack,<br /><br />Do you believe in a woman's right to choose or in abortion rights? Do you believe that gay sex is okay? Is just as good for society or just as legitimate as heterosexual sex?<br /><br />If so, then you are in fact a moral relativist. <br /><br />It is impossible for God to commit genocide. He is the creator of all life and therefore has the authority to giveth and to taketh away. God is divine. Genocide is a human phenomenon. <br /><br />Just because the bible is divinely inspired doesn't mean every word must be taken literally. There are parts of the bible are meant to be interpreted allegorically.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-31627915950061536812012-07-06T19:04:41.822-06:002012-07-06T19:04:41.822-06:00Your last TWO posts, as it turns out. You sneaked ...Your last TWO posts, as it turns out. You sneaked another good one in while I was writing mine. ;-)<br /><br /><br />~ FT<br /><br />PS: But don't take it all TOO seriously. Very very very few people get chained to pickup trucks and dragged to their deaths in OUR society, thank God. It's wrong to ascribe such a mentality to the majority of those who identify themselves as Christian. BELIEVE me, such is not the case. - FTFreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-25769269348493480812012-07-06T19:01:50.955-06:002012-07-06T19:01:50.955-06:00FT,
Thank you =)
P.S. - I'm far from an athei...FT,<br />Thank you =)<br /><br />P.S. - I'm far from an atheist. As you seem to believe, whether or not the Bible was divinely inspired is irrelevant to whether or not God exists (IMO). I tried to read the Bible word for word once. I think I got to Chronicles and said "enough."<br /><br />=)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-58752906469899179792012-07-06T18:58:42.255-06:002012-07-06T18:58:42.255-06:00Theresa,
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with re...Theresa,<br />This has absolutely NOTHING to do with relativism. I'm not a relativist--not even a little bit. This is about the evolution of ideas.<br /><br />Sorry to break it to you, but as time goes on and rational humans continue to use their brains for actual thinking, we tend to figure out that some of the things we found acceptable in the past were not actually acceptable.<br /><br />Slavery. An Eye for an Eye. Monarchy. Denying women's suffrage. Prohibition. Genocide.<br /><br />Those are all examples of ideas that we thought were good, but we later realized they were pretty stupid. This isn't relativism. This is what we in the rational world call "thinking."<br /><br />Try it some time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-30488995742895026552012-07-06T18:55:07.905-06:002012-07-06T18:55:07.905-06:00Jack, I have recently troubled to read every word ...Jack, I have recently troubled to read every word in the Bible. I had never read it all the way through before, and thought I owed it to myself to do so, because time is beginning to run out, and besides I've become more curious in old age, no that I don't think about myself very much anymore. (BOY! Is THAT ever liberating!!!)<br /><br />Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with your appraisal of the OT. It's a HORROR story. <br /><br />Almighty God certainly exists, of that I'm morally certain, but He, She or It could not POSSIBLY be the monstrous, vituperative, sadistic, capricious, irascible old tyrant we find in the Old Testament.<br /><br />I'm not going to go into it anymore than I already have, but I'm perfectly satisfied with the understanding that has come to me as to where the OT really came from and why.<br /><br />Not ALL of it is "bad," by any means, (Thank Heavens for the Decalogue!) but Leviticus and Deuteronomy, <i>et al.</i> bear such a striking resemblance to the worst aspects of Islamic Fundamentalism it's a wonder any decent, compassionate, intelligent, educated person could subscribe to the arrant viciousness found in that material.<br /><br />I do not see this point of view as a justification for atheism, however, only for a radically different understanding of who and what the one true God really is. <br /><br />I'm quite unwilling to take the word of primitive Jewish tribal warlords -- most of whom were little better than any other garden variety barbarians -- as the Final Revelation of so enormously important and complex a subject.<br /><br />Just all me the Happy Heretic. I've seen how Fundamentalism warps peoples' lives and deprives them of any chance ever to achieve fulfillment of the human potential. It's degrading, and it produces tremendous hostility -- and smugness as well.<br /><br />Enough! For some reason this subject never fails to strike a nerve. <br /><br />I think your last post was spot on, Jack.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeFreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.com