tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post7081570894109887194..comments2023-09-15T08:07:28.542-06:00Comments on Western Hero: Child Poverty and Single ParenthoodSilverfiddlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-28909613705614535762011-07-28T08:52:45.029-06:002011-07-28T08:52:45.029-06:00"It benefits me to pay for their education, b..."It benefits me to pay for their education, because if I don't, you're going to make me pay for their sustainment further down the road."<br /><br />Wherever you got that from, it wasn't from anything I said.<br /><br />Quite aside from unemployment costs, the benefit of mass education is greater than it's financial cost. The externalities are just so enormous. Imagine how much more everything would cost if you couldn't rely on the general population's literacy. Every sign, package label, announcement etc. would have to be made with little pictures or through audio.<br />That's worth it, even if that means my own kid has to work or get a loan through college.<br /><br />As an ideological footnote, I would add that education is kind of the whole <em>point</em> of society, and as such it should be publicly funded with pride and relish, not begrudged like some of you seem to.<br />Also ideologically: college should also be publicly funded, but also a good deal rarer than it is. It should be reserved, pardon my bad language, for the academic elite, not be reduced to a 3 year creche for teenagers.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-60446249925209297062011-07-27T18:06:22.405-06:002011-07-27T18:06:22.405-06:00Jez, you've invented the self-licking ice crea...Jez, you've invented the self-licking ice cream cone. <br /><br />It benefits me to pay for their education, because if I don't, you're going to make me pay for their sustainment further down the road.<br /><br />You assume it is everyone's burden to pay for your choices, but seriously, what if the tax you paid for your neighbors seven kids over twelve years is what kept you from sending your own kid to college, would that be fair?<br /><br />Take for example West Chester County NY, where the average property tax is $8404, if half of that goes to schools, that is $4202, over 12 years that is $50,000. Would $50,000 not go along way towards sending one of your kids to college?Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-39895371783699549672011-07-27T13:20:42.581-06:002011-07-27T13:20:42.581-06:00I'm just going to say one more thing. Those w...I'm just going to say one more thing. Those who truly need help should get it, period. And I believe there should be stricter guidelines for freeloaders and abusers of the service. <br /><br />I know how Divine felt, I have seen it too many times. These women with manicured nails, designer clothes, and driving expensive cars, and lest we forget, tattoos using a Link card.<br /><br />It disgusts me. I can't afford any of that and both I and my husband work.Trekkie4Everhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226981394122557804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-83112677093747073332011-07-27T10:40:26.757-06:002011-07-27T10:40:26.757-06:00Jez is right, Rob. No man is an island. Like it or...Jez is right, Rob. No man is an island. Like it or not we are interdependent creatures. The better educated our children become, the better our society is apt to be -- for everyone. Do you want moronic, untutored savages looking after you when you get to the wheelchair stage? I doubt it.<br /><br />However, the quality of public education is so poor these days I am not sure it's worth funding, so in that sense you are right. but, I would prefer to see a reformation in educational policies, which would mean a return to promoting literacy, knowledge of history unblemished by PC thinking, good skills in arithmetic, courses in thrift, budgeting, balancing a checkbook, saving and investment, sound moral principles based on Christianity, and appreciation for Art, Music Architecture, Literature worldwide.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-14268586202707410572011-07-27T09:54:12.896-06:002011-07-27T09:54:12.896-06:00Jez, I don’t mind helping to educate the populace ...Jez, I don’t mind helping to educate the populace in general, but my portion of the tax burden should not be the same as my neighbor who has a whole gaggle of kids!<br /><br />If those who opt to procreate far, far beyond their means are never subject to any real consequences of their irresponsible actions, what will prompt that to change? Hit these people in the pocketbook and maybe they'll learn a lesson!Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02101289328294242999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-57187628941225460972011-07-27T07:44:54.644-06:002011-07-27T07:44:54.644-06:00"Sure there needs to be a baseline that we al..."Sure there needs to be a baseline that we all share, but those who have multiple kids in school should shoulder a heavier taxation burden."<br /><br />Couldn't disagree more, the benefit of a generally educated population is felt by all. You can view each pupil as paying for his own education during his future working life if that helps, ideologically. Also, consider the impact of the quality of local schools on the resale value of your property.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-91166235101482692462011-07-27T07:00:45.864-06:002011-07-27T07:00:45.864-06:00Maybe this is off-topic a bit, but perhaps if taxa...Maybe this is off-topic a bit, but perhaps if taxation were proportional, that might serve as a deterrent of sorts. That is, if my neighbor (single parent or otherwise) had to pay a proportionally far greater share of the local taxes that go to education because s/he has 5 children as opposed to me having one, s/he might (just maybe) actually put some thought into whether child #6 was a viable, sensible option. The next kiddo could, after all, seriously cut into the Bud Light budget...<br /><br />I've always had a big issue with the fact that for 20+ years I've been paying through the nose - more than 51% of my property taxes go to the school district - and didn't even have a child! Sure there needs to be a baseline that we all share, but those who have multiple kids in school should shoulder a heavier taxation burden.<br /><br />On a wholly different tangent, access to affordable health care would be much less critical if parents would simply pay a little attention to the garbage that they're feeding their children. Food targeted at kids is absolute junk. How dare we be shocked at the rising tide of ADHD and bullying when we feed our children Cinnabons and Red Bulls for breakfast. For Christ's sake, if you can't be bothered to - at a minimum - prepare your child a solid meal to start the day, then why the hell did you have kids to begin with?!!Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02101289328294242999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-74047469730379710562011-07-27T06:28:24.182-06:002011-07-27T06:28:24.182-06:00Finn,
As Magpie says, not having children has nev...Finn,<br /><br />As Magpie says, not having children has never been considered an option by the poor. That does seem self-evident. If they thought differently, perhaps they wouldn't <i>be</i> so poor.<br /><br />Lord love the children! They are the crux of the matter. As I've already said, innocent children should not have to suffer for the foolishness and immorality of their biological parents, but then you and I should not be expected to raise them at our expense -- especially when we have children of our own to take care of and their future to secure.<br /><br />I'm afraid the only <i>sure</i> way to prevent the spread of poverty and injustice to innocent children is to prevent delinquent parents from having children in the first place.<br /><br />That's just common sense.<br /><br />As you said, Finn, the first illegitimate child should be helped by society, because everyone should be forgiven for making one tragic error. After that, however, tubal ligation is very much in order. Much cheaper to fund public sterilization of wayward mothers than to raise an infinite number of bastard children at public expense.<br /><br /><b>AN OUNCE OF PREVENTION IS WORTH A POUND OF CURE</b><br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-16682474187974011752011-07-27T04:41:09.911-06:002011-07-27T04:41:09.911-06:00You make good points Jez.
Government has replaced...You make good points Jez.<br /><br />Government has replaced family and alleviated us of our responsibility to our kinfolk.<br /><br />@ Anon: <i>This is 2011, join reality.<br />Lots of things disgust me, but they have the right to make their own decisions about their own behavior.</i><br /><br />Not on my dime they don't.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-2269991576938664692011-07-27T03:55:51.072-06:002011-07-27T03:55:51.072-06:00My grandfather was one of 14 children who survived...My grandfather was one of 14 children who survived infancy growing up in a smoke and brick hellhole on the London docks circa 1910, where his father was a cop. At age 14 he entered the Royal Navy and did not see his mother again for years. <br /><br />I’m pretty glad his mum did have so many kids though - in spite of grinding poverty - or I wouldn’t be here today, enjoying my internet connection. <br /><br />It has NEVER at any time in history been common practice to not have kids if you are poor. People all over the world who live in sewers still do it.<br />You can howl at the moon against the human tide and it will avail you naught. Imperatives more powerful than any ideology are at work. <br /><br />I realise you are talking about marriage here however…<br />It’s true, we’ve let that go as a bulwark against failing to provide for children, but marriages were surely no happier then than now.<br /><br />What was different was that people had more static communities. Generation upon generations of your ancestors never went far out of sight of their home village. In a space equivalent to a modern home, my grandfather probably lived with his and maybe half a dozen other families. A boy had a veritable army of older brothers and uncles and cousins to keep them out of trouble, teach them to be men, and define their life’s path.<br /><br />These days there are vastly more options, whether you are poor or not, and vastly greater mobility.<br />The elastic of community has snapped under that. Yes we have other modes of connectivity but they do not function in that same way.<br /><br />And it all happened so quick. In just over a lifetime, suddenly there was this ‘middle class’ of a post-industrial society<br /><br />Progressives (I am one) do not “hate such personal responsibility talk”.<br />You’re right, it comes down to responsibility. <br />But not just for ourselves. If my sister dies I have to see her children are taken care of. If a neighbour beats his kids I have to call the authorities (the law forbids me from threatening him personally). If a kid turns up homeless in my street I have to be satisfied that someone somewhere is on the case.Magpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15489091434613178568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-47125419134035452672011-07-27T00:39:24.894-06:002011-07-27T00:39:24.894-06:00This is 2011, join reality.
Lots of things disgust...This is 2011, join reality.<br />Lots of things disgust me, but they have the right to make their own decisions about their own behavior.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-29969347984046308562011-07-26T23:58:25.517-06:002011-07-26T23:58:25.517-06:00Anonymous...who's surprised?
Disgusted at peop...Anonymous...who's surprised?<br />Disgusted at people who show little integrity..? Yes.<br />People who don't feel disgusted are the idiots, don't you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-2107717688993921322011-07-26T22:47:18.534-06:002011-07-26T22:47:18.534-06:00In a free society you are surprised and upset at p...In a free society you are surprised and upset at people who live differently, than you think they should. Who's the idiot?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-11693299213574020282011-07-26T22:18:12.076-06:002011-07-26T22:18:12.076-06:00FT, Sterilization is unnecessary, all you need to ...FT, Sterilization is unnecessary, all you need to do is cut off the money.<br /><br />I always figured the best way to go was to provide assistance for one child, if they had three, well that's their stupidity. <br /><br />Jersey, if my real blood brother screws up... sure I'd help him out. If he screwed up over and over at the same thing and in the same way... well, honestly? He'd be on his own. In order for people to learn from their mistakes they must suffer the consequences, otherwise you are what is called an enabler.<br /><br />Enabler: one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (such as substance abuse) by providing excuses or making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior.<br /><br />And our government has become one hell of an enabler.<br /><br />DT: I was shopping at an A&P in Sandwich, Massachusetts back in 1991... my pregnant wife was craving artichoke, so I went to the store about 9 pm. As I checked out, a fiftyish year old gentlemen in front of me paid for his purchase with foodstamps. I was checked out quickly and caught up to him in the parking lot. Coincidentally, we were parked next to each other. I climbed into my 1981 AMC Spirit as he climbed into his relatively new Mercedes 560 SEL. New in 1990 that car was in the neighborhood of 70 grand, even if his was a first model year (1986) it had to be worth close to 40-50K. <br /><br />While it's true he could have bought and paid for the car before falling on hard times, but were our situations reversed, I'd sell the damn car long before I wound up on food stamps.<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-22483440527796368182011-07-26T22:14:22.423-06:002011-07-26T22:14:22.423-06:00I can certainly understand your feelings, Ms. Thea...I can certainly understand your feelings, Ms. Theatre, but these unsavory souls who grossly take advantage of the system as you describe are as much its victim as you and I.<br /><br />It's the system, itself, that is at fault. It is not <i>being</i>abused; it is, in and of itself <i>an</i> abuse -- an abuse of the public trust -- an abuse of the spirit of Charity -- an abuse of public funds.<br /><br />Politicians created this monstrosity in order to buy themselves permanent incumbency, but Marxists dreamed it all up as a deliberate method of undermining the Christian Church and our democratic Republican form of government.<br /><br />If you're not already familiar with her, you'd be interested to read articles by Star Parker -- a remarkably astute black woman who was born on what-she-calls The Liberal Plantation, was raised in degradation, but saw her situation for what it was, and by her own volition rescued herself from the peonage into which she was born. Now she writes articles and books and lectures all over the country on the evils of Welfare Statism and related topics.<br /><br />Star Parker is living proof that miracles DO happen.<br /><br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-9418212695931349532011-07-26T20:48:10.796-06:002011-07-26T20:48:10.796-06:00I was behind a woman at the cash register at WalMa...I was behind a woman at the cash register at WalMart last night. She paid her $460 bill with a Link card. Her cart was FILLED! I paid for my $160 worth of groceries and went into the parking lot. There was the woman, who just spent MY money on groceries, loading her HumVee! Her filthy kids were in the car crying for she had left them there while she shopped. The oldest was probably four years of age.<br />Being your "brothers keeper" is one thing, Jersey.<br />We've been had!<br />The message to these entitlist wretches is "You keep making irresponsible decisions while I make sacrifices to feed your unwanted, undisciplined spawn!" They'll keep making more...<br />When I was in my 20"s I was behind an obese, pregnant teenager who used a public aid card to pay for her food. She turned to her equally obese mother who just purchased two cartons of cigarettes and traded the food for the cigarettes...in front of God and everyone!<br />The elderly gentleman behind me was buying a bag of generic beans. He was so old his hands were shaking and he dropped the change he held. I bent down to pick up the fallen change and placed it back in his trembling hand. I was utterly sickened by what I had just seen.<br />That undisciplined, obese pig was creating even more tax parasites while this gentelman could barely get by...and I will bet my WalMart hotdogs he worked hard his whole life!Divine Theatrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02553420826262806110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-81487501429900887082011-07-26T20:07:37.909-06:002011-07-26T20:07:37.909-06:00Jersey,
It's all right -- even noble -- to ac...Jersey,<br /><br />It's all right -- even noble -- to act as our brother's keeper -- <i>if</i> he truly needs our assistance -- but that doesn't mean we should become our brother's slave. <br /><br />We need to protect the weak, but we should do everything possible to encourage them to become as strong and independent as they possibly can. <br /><br />Just because someone needs our assistance doesn't mean they should assume the right to dictate to us.<br /><br />Have you ever taken care of a severely handicapped person?<br /><br />I have -- and believe me I know how quickly they can assume the role of a despot, <i>if you allow it</i>.<br /><br />Remember the character Eleanor in The Haunting of Hill House? She let her invalid mother steal and destroy her life to the point where she felt she had no right to live at all after her mother finally died, and was driven to commit suicide.<br /><br />That kind of self-sacrifice is no good. It becomes a mental illness. <br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-55198355630006793402011-07-26T19:57:50.595-06:002011-07-26T19:57:50.595-06:00"The problem isn't the single or married ...<i>"The problem isn't the single or married parents that have a kid and require assistance... the problem is the single or married parents already on assistance that continue to have more."</i><br /><br />I have always believed that anyone who chronically lives at public expense should undergo mandatory sterilization. Once you let someone else take care of you, you ought to be expected to live your life THEIR way. Being dependent <i>should</i> mean that you no longer have the luxury of making choices for yourself. PERIOD.<br /><br />If we instituted a Draconian policy like that, I'll bet you'd see hundreds of thousands disappear right quick from the welfare rolls.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-90698853952353685702011-07-26T19:34:51.278-06:002011-07-26T19:34:51.278-06:00Finntann, yes. We are our brothers keeper. That&...Finntann, yes. We are our brothers keeper. That's what being a stand-up guy is all about.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-72128261620717331132011-07-26T19:05:04.632-06:002011-07-26T19:05:04.632-06:00Of course there are exceptions to the statistics S...Of course there are exceptions to the statistics SF shares. <br />But I don't think it's so much education as integrity, "responsible behavior", which lifts up two-parent families and separates them from the typical difficulties that single-parenthood usually creates.<br />Can anybody argue that coming into the world with the cards stacked against one is more difficult than coming into the world of a two-parent family? Some single parents are probably more conscientious than two-parent families, but the optimum of a mother who can stay at home and give her children the values children absorb from good modeling can't be denied. And, when children see a good example that's worked, they marry and tend to follow that good example.<br /><br />Will we have again a country of mostly two-parent families? Or do we now? Does anybody see improvements in kids from even 25 years ago? I sure don't. <br /><br />Jersey said "It is the citizens responsibility to make the character of the nation better."<br /><br />It's the citizen's responsibility to make the character of his children better by showing hard work and integrity and encouraging education and self-reliance...then the nation will be better. <br /><br />I don't think we have a chance, personally...those days are over. But they did exist. We need to look at what changed.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-84767627012602499812011-07-26T18:55:21.070-06:002011-07-26T18:55:21.070-06:00Trestin:
Hear, Hear! If there is anyone God list...Trestin:<br /><br />Hear, Hear! If there is anyone God listens to, it is children. Those that have created this corrosive culture will face a reckoning someday.<br /><br />Even as I write there are organizations (like discoverthenetworks.com) putting together the links between those apologists for liberal society, the NGOs, the endowment funds, and those that run them.<br /><br />I have hope in our nation's future. We have rough times ahead. Old mores will be re-discovered for the true worth they have. <br /><br />Those that sought to tear down America will be known and not forgotten.Hugh Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13083672180459131054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-35946642031945725912011-07-26T18:54:43.552-06:002011-07-26T18:54:43.552-06:00Jack, if I told you not to stick your finger in a ...Jack, if I told you not to stick your finger in a lamp socket, would you proceed to list for me those who had and lived? It's all about odds, sure the wealthy can buck them and pay the costs, the poor can gamble on a long shot and win. The question is should they? It is not a question of morality, should I get or stay married or not, it's a question of responsibility...what are the repercussions if I do this?<br /><br />Jersey said " People do irresponsible things. It happens. As a society, we try to assist them and guide them in a better direction, but more importantly, we try to the children, the innocent victims of irresponsibility"<br /><br />Yes, people do irresponsible things...and it's our responsibility to pay for their irresponsibility?<br /><br />And you are right, it is not the childrens fault their parents are idiots. <br /><br />The problem isn't the single or married parents that have a kid and require assistance... the problem is the single or married parents already on assistance that continue to have more.<br /><br />We as a society can probably afford helping out now and then, but not continually. As SF said it all comes down to consequences for your actions, shield people from consequences and there is no reason for them to act responsibly.<br /><br />If you show up for work late once, your boss is going to let it slide, show up late 3 or 4 times a week and you're gonna get fired (consequences). <br /><br />Today, have a kid when your income is below a predetermined threshold and the government gives you money...have another kid, get more money. See the problem? There are minimal consequences.<br /><br />I too was raised by my mother when my father passed away when I was eight. She was a single parent and was in no way, shape, or form, irresponsible. She always made the house payment and the utilities, of course I can remember drinking Carnation Instant Milk growing up instead of whole, which I realize now was probably too expensive for her budget. I can also remember being p.o'd because I wanted Jordache jeans and got Wranglers instead. I thought it was mean, I now see it as responsible, why buy one pair when you can get two. I also know know she went without a lot for me, and no matter how tight things were, she was always putting money in the basket at church on Sundays for those more needy than herself.<br /><br />I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood and there were many like us, two doors down was an old grandmother raising her daughter's son. There were one or two other kids who had lost a parent. I can't recall any single parents in the neighborhood who were single parents by choice.<br /><br />What a difference a few decades make, eh?Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-3770335926898798372011-07-26T17:46:24.301-06:002011-07-26T17:46:24.301-06:00I come from an original two-parent household. The...I come from an original two-parent household. They're still happily together today. And I'm in my early 40's.<br /><br />Freethinke,<br /><br />Back then a third of the workforce was unionized, there was no "free trade," we had a top marginal rate well beyond todays and the middle class could afford a far higher share of the revenue, we were building highways and bridges and power grids and schools and hospitals and parks and libraries and all sorts of stuff. Back then we were a far more progressive society - and far more successful.<br /><br />Leticia,<br /><br />You make a good point, but like Silver, you're just preaching to choir. The government can't do much about the culture. If anything government is a reflection of the culture, and most certainly not the other way around.<br /><br />Changing the culture requires grass-roots cultural - not political - movement. We don't want the government telling us how to live. The government's role is to make life more opportune, more balanced and fair. It is the citizens responsibility to make the character of the nation better.<br /><br />Think of the government as the guys who make a race track. It's their job to make the track safe, properly proportioned, and to provide necessary and prudently placed pit-stops. It is not their job to just make a track however they arbitrarily, subjectively, ideologically want to see it.<br /><br />We do have serious social problems - some of them can be traced to our general heritage as poor immigrants, some of them can be traced to slavery and racism, some of them can be traced to Western religious stupidity, some of them can be traced to our easy expansion and opportunity in the New World, etc.<br /><br />We can't really trace these deep, interconnected, multi-generational dispostions to "welfare" and the "New Deal" and the "Great Society" and such. Nor can we put it all on the "Shining city on the Hill" or "American exceptionalism." We have cultural issues far predate all those modern politics.<br /><br />But we can see certain connections and causalities - and it seems obviously clear to me that the military empire, free trade, and regressive taxation have produced NOTHING but negative results. Period.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-74898237039751283922011-07-26T17:23:48.830-06:002011-07-26T17:23:48.830-06:00"Whow [sic}, so many posters so out to lunch,...<i>"Whow [sic}, so many posters so out to lunch, lol."</i><br /><br />Only what that I can think of, BD.<br /><br />I'll give you three guesses as to who it might be.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-53021734885180825822011-07-26T16:57:19.660-06:002011-07-26T16:57:19.660-06:00Whow, so many posters so out to lunch, lol.Whow, so many posters so out to lunch, lol.Bdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16577053490433489212noreply@blogger.com