tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post7804748142141752477..comments2023-09-15T08:07:28.542-06:00Comments on Western Hero: Progressivism's Pernicious Holy WarSilverfiddlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-60314843520443591452012-02-13T19:38:17.452-07:002012-02-13T19:38:17.452-07:00Grung_e_Gene,
As far as Pharmacists not wanting t...Grung_e_Gene,<br /><br />As far as Pharmacists not wanting to fill birth control prescriptions that is entirely at the discretion of the employer, notice I said employer, not government.<br /><br />If the employer wishes to accomodate the person, fine. If the employer does not... then they can go find a pharmacy willing to accomodate them or they can find another occupation. Choosing to go to school to be a pharmacist, it is their responsibility to understand that they may be tasked to fill those prescriptions and they suffer the consequence of their own moral choices.<br /><br />From a consumer standpoint, if Pharmacy A doesn't fill birth control prescriptions you are free to take your business elsewhere. If enough people do that they will reconsider their business model.<br /><br />Constitutionally, the federal government shouldn't be involved at all.<br /><br />As far as negotiating a compensation package with a defense contractor...good for you.<br />I never said you couldn't negotiate a compensation package. I said the company was under no obligation to accede to your demands. <br /><br />They could have easily counter offered with $110K and an 80/20 split on medical, and would have been perfectly within their rights to do so, or to just pass on your offer and hire someone else.<br /><br />It is the way the market works... but understand this also, if you were applying in a state without right to employment for a position in a closed union shop, you would have been stuck with whatever the union negotiated.<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-34594909099617488732012-02-13T17:43:05.213-07:002012-02-13T17:43:05.213-07:00Gene, and God bless you for being in a position to...Gene, and God bless you for being in a position to negotiate like that. Unfortunately, most Americans are not, but that doesn't make it slavery.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-10495257050575598232012-02-13T12:46:49.316-07:002012-02-13T12:46:49.316-07:00Finntann, I already know the answer but when Pharm...Finntann, I already know the answer but when Pharmacists refused to fill birth control prescriptions based on their moral concerns with whom did you side? The person wanting the healthcare or the person who didn't want to do their job?<br /><br />finntann, try this out I told a *unnamed* DoD affiliated corporation I want a 3 year deal @ $125K with full tricare equivalent coverage and got it...<br /><br />Workers often tell employers what they want and based on their skills they sometimes get it. Your conservative alternate reality matrix really has you twisted in mental knots...<br /><br />dmarks, I don't favor "right-to-work".Grung_e_Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01894879088472559055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-17898354036325378992012-02-12T22:35:50.064-07:002012-02-12T22:35:50.064-07:00Grung_e_Gene: << Basically, conservatives ar...Grung_e_Gene: << Basically, conservatives are siding with the cultists, like Koresh >><br /><br />That is one of the weirdest analogies I have ever heard.<br /><br />Shake yourself. You just gave me the shivers.KPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13788103894599339102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-78051126539715724042012-02-12T17:10:55.332-07:002012-02-12T17:10:55.332-07:00Ducky said: "But many of those who think it&#...Ducky said: "But many of those who think it's wrong to forbid Americans to buy contraceptives"<br /><br />No one is proposing this. Unlike the mainstream views (supported by a very large percentage of the population, often a clear majority) you "fringe", this one is actually a fringe view. <br /><br />A straw-man. Not even the Catholics running the hospitals in questions are proposing this. Nice try.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-21560837517808254002012-02-12T17:09:10.744-07:002012-02-12T17:09:10.744-07:00Grung said: "And are you saying that a person...Grung said: "And are you saying that a person can't dictate the terms of their pay and employment? Good call for slavery."<br /><br />Answer this. Do you favor "right to work" protections? Or oppose them?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-30735153276104237302012-02-12T15:42:28.379-07:002012-02-12T15:42:28.379-07:00"So, get your head properly around the issue...."So, get your head properly around the issue.<br /><br />If the Catholic-affliated hospital provides benefits a healthcare plan) to one group they can't provide less benefits (a healthcare plan that may include contraceptives) to another."<br /><br />Yes you bloody moron, and if the Catholic Church provided contraceptives to Catholics but not anyone else you would have a frigging point. You, however, are dictating that they provide more benefits to all their employees.<br /><br />The point is contraceptives are contrary to their belief system and they are not providing them for anyone (equality!). <br /><br />" And are you saying that a person can't dictate the terms of their pay and employment? Good call for slavery."<br /><br />Little experiment.<br /><br />Go down to your local McDonald's. Tell them you want to cook fries and you want $80,000 a year for it, with full medical/dental/vision benefits. Four weeks of vacation a year, stock options, and a profit participation plan.<br /><br />When they get done laughing at you, come back here and we'll talk.Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-75872807066510698762012-02-12T13:36:33.009-07:002012-02-12T13:36:33.009-07:00The church is not treating different groups differ...The church is not treating different groups differently. They are treating all employees the same.<br /><br />There is no right to force someone to give you something, period.<br /><br />And your analogy is inapt. You mix up docking someone's pay with benefits offered. Finn's argument is right on.<br /><br />A person can dictate the terms of their pay? Where? I'd love to have that!<br /><br />Your arguments are confused and unconvincing.<br /><br />No one is denying anyone anything. If somebody wants these things, they can go buy them. The federal government may not tell once entity that it must buy somebody something.<br /><br />Please tune in on Monday. I am blogging about natural rights and the constitution. I would love to hear your take on it.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-82755047661469337652012-02-12T13:02:13.311-07:002012-02-12T13:02:13.311-07:00Finntann, you analogy is exactly backwards, what t...Finntann, you analogy is exactly backwards, what the catholics are doing is withholding benefits because sometime, somwhere, someone may use them to do something they disagree with...<br /><br />It's as if the Mormons decided to dock your pay because they found out you used their money to buy coca-cola or a Jewish-affliated hospital cut your salary because some of the money they owe you went for bacon.<br /><br />So, get your head properly around the issue.<br /><br />If the Catholic-affliated hospital provides benefits a healthcare plan) to one group they can't provide less benefits (a healthcare plan that may include contraceptives) to another. <br /><br />And are you saying that a person can't dictate the terms of their pay and employment? Good call for slavery.<br /><br />This issue is clearly showing people the Totalitarian Nature of the Right-Wingers, especially the Zealous ones.Grung_e_Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01894879088472559055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-67930526766718653922012-02-12T11:51:28.294-07:002012-02-12T11:51:28.294-07:00Unlike government that indoctrinates people and th...Unlike government that indoctrinates people and then does unspeakable things to them in the name of the party.<br /><br />The Catholic Church is treating all of its employees equally, they do not proide birth control because it is in violation of their beliefs. What's next? Mandating that Mormans provide caffeinated products and that Jews provide bacon in their cafeterias? That Chik-fil-a must open on Sunday's because their non-christian employees have a right to work on that day?<br /><br />You have a right to work, that is not to be discriminated against due to actionable factors such as Race, Color, Religion, National Origin, Age, Sex, Familial Status, Disability, etc.<br /><br />You do not have a right to work at the time and place of your choosing, nor do you have the right to dictate your own terms of employment and compensation.Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-65373064403874094902012-02-12T11:35:04.022-07:002012-02-12T11:35:04.022-07:00This is a seriously pernicious argument. By allegi...This is a seriously pernicious argument. By alleging that the Federal Government can not mandate that religious-affliated organizations can not treat members differently and making this a false choice of religious liberty for "churches" you reach a fairly evil conclusion.<br /><br />A question, Can the Federal Government try religious persons for secular crimes? Clearly, the Catholic Church or others can hide behind the 1st Amendment and say the government has no rights to stop actions by religious persons, even those involving 3rd parties.<br /><br />Basically, conservatives are siding with the cultists, like Koresh, who indoctrinate people and then do unspeakable things to them in the name of religion.Grung_e_Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01894879088472559055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-84264401129881928852012-02-12T10:19:00.866-07:002012-02-12T10:19:00.866-07:00AOW: For the nanny state, this is just another exe...AOW: For the nanny state, this is just another executive decree.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-14708558409530677722012-02-12T04:24:19.006-07:002012-02-12T04:24:19.006-07:00Furthermore, who is to say that Obama can't de...Furthermore, who is to say that Obama can't decide that a woman should have only two children as her own wellness and preventive care?Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-72431199668035674332012-02-12T04:21:50.096-07:002012-02-12T04:21:50.096-07:00Finntann,
Excellent comment from you at 2/11/12 12...Finntann,<br />Excellent comment from you at 2/11/12 12:35 PM!<br /><br />And what will Obama next mandate that health insurance policies cover?<br /><br />Obama appears to perceive pregnancy as an illness that should be prevented via his mandate for wellness coverage.<br /><br />Well, what isn't wellness on some level? Sheesh.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-79763172642913028912012-02-11T17:53:16.230-07:002012-02-11T17:53:16.230-07:00Wow, Bill Maher... that proves it. Thank god we ha...Wow, Bill Maher... that proves it. Thank god we have someone to lead us now that Carlin is dead, I don't know what we'd do without comedians!<br /><br />FRANKEN 2016!!!<br /><br />'scuse me, I gotta run down and join SPUSA, thanks for enlightening us!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-70063819251230593802012-02-11T17:43:44.940-07:002012-02-11T17:43:44.940-07:00Republicans are the real Divisionists:
http://you...Republicans are the real Divisionists:<br /><br />http://youtu.be/cMuk5XP3mLYLiberalmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04612454539046863752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-36268807808310277982012-02-11T17:15:03.787-07:002012-02-11T17:15:03.787-07:00We're talking about women's bodies and the...<i>We're talking about women's bodies and their health, here.</i><br /><br />We're also talking about the child a pregnant woman is carrying in her womb and that child's health, unless you're one of those sorts of psuedoscientific "pro-choice" dolts that believe the pre-natal medical and surgical professions are quackery.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-61738776778319327972012-02-11T13:20:46.664-07:002012-02-11T13:20:46.664-07:00Yeah, I was being rhetorical.
Guy's a pro.Yeah, I was being rhetorical.<br /><br />Guy's a pro.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-92133609942857153002012-02-11T12:44:39.801-07:002012-02-11T12:44:39.801-07:00Of course it was intentional Ducky, it's all p...Of course it was intentional Ducky, it's all part of the smoke and mirrors.<br /><br />It's like throwing a steak over the junkyard fence so you can sneak past the dogs.<br /><br />This subject has been a reliable distraction from the real issues for decades. <br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-24836092366690038752012-02-11T12:35:06.866-07:002012-02-11T12:35:06.866-07:00Shaw said "Birth control is vital to a woman&...Shaw said "Birth control is vital to a woman's health; and for the anti-choice people, birth control cuts down on abortions."<br /><br />I am not aware of anyone here advocating banning contraceptives.<br /><br />The issue isn't over the legality of it, the issue is over who pays for it and whether or not the government has a right to mandate it.<br /><br />There are a myriad of things that are vital to health that are not covered by health insurance. As I pointed out to Jersey previously: food, clothing, vitamins, etc.<br /><br />Malnutrition is a medical condition yet food is not covered under your health insurance plan. <br /><br />Pregnancy is the result of a voluntary act, pregnancy is the consequence. If you don't want to get pregnant, either don't have sex or buy contraceptives yourself.<br /><br />Sure if your doctor says you shouldn't get pregnant for a medical reason, contraception is healthcare and should be covered if a medical necessity. If your accountant says you shouldn't get pregnant because you can't afford it... well then it is your responsibility to ensure that you don't.<br /><br />I think a simple and legitimate compromise would have been something along the lines of:<br /><br />In cases where pregnancy is contraindicated by an existing medical condition coverage of contraceptives and abortifacients is required.<br /><br />But then, while providing necessary medical coverage, that wouldn't meet the true agenda of providing free birth control to all paid for by someone else. <br /><br />Like I said before, do you want us to pay for the dinner and a movie too?<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-77334352342943736612012-02-11T12:33:35.142-07:002012-02-11T12:33:35.142-07:00Everyone talking about this birth control kabuki a...Everyone talking about this birth control kabuki and completely ignoring that he got down on his knees to the banksters again.<br /><br />Wonder if this was intentional.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-73000306841183606282012-02-11T12:07:50.116-07:002012-02-11T12:07:50.116-07:00Jersey said: "Newspeak." LOL! You guys d...Jersey said: "Newspeak." LOL! You guys do realize where the expression comes from, right? It's not from a viewpoint of pro-conservative thought."<br /><br />It certainly doesn't come from an advocate of state power. <br /><br />Get off your high horse and stop assuming you are more intelligent or better educated than everyone else.<br /><br />I know who Eric Arthur Blair was and I know he was marginally a Democratic Socialist, he was also an Anglican and was intensely opposed to totalitarianism and the authoritarian state.<br /><br />"The fallacy is to believe that under a dictatorial government you can be free inside."<br /><br />"The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians."<br /><br />"In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law."<br /><br />"Threats to freedom of speech, writing and action, though often trivial in isolation, are cumulative in their effect and, unless checked, lead to a general disrespect for the rights of the citizen. "<br /><br />You redefine contraception as medicine in an attempt to legitimize your political argument.<br /><br />Are shoes medicine?<br /><br />Are gloves medicine?<br /><br />Should they be provided free of charge by your health insurance?<br /><br />Shoes prevent ringworm, hookworm, abrasions, cuts, infection... etc.<br /><br />Gloves prevent a similar range of possible medical conditions.<br /><br />Contraception prevents pregnancy, pregnancy is not a disease or illness, or for most people at some time or another, it is not an undesirable condition.<br /><br />Your argument is specious.<br /><br />How about this... I'll go so far as concede that health insurance should provide contraception where there is a documented medical necessity to prevent pregnancy and that for anyone on assistance it should be provided free of charge by the state. Please note that I said provided by the state, not mandated by the state or provided by employers, insurerers, or anyone else.<br /><br />When you have a lifestyle or financial reasone to prevent it, you can pay for it your god damn self!<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-44340576680680191472012-02-11T10:47:05.347-07:002012-02-11T10:47:05.347-07:00Venocci's argument is basically that any priva...Venocci's argument is basically that any private institution that is lured by government candy is under government control.Country Thinkerhttp://countrythinker.com/home/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-84159611742607475992012-02-11T10:39:25.985-07:002012-02-11T10:39:25.985-07:00Jersey: Occam's Razor? I think you need to go ...Jersey: Occam's Razor? I think you need to go look that one up. This has nothing to do with that.<br /><br />But their is a proper role for logic, so let's break it down.<br /><br />You posit that the Hyde Amendment is essentially the government "imposing religious strictures," to which I prove to you that there exists opposition to the practice by the non-religious (Charles Krauthammer is another).<br /><br />Therefore, opposition to abortion is not strictly a religious thing. Have you known any secular humanists? There are millions of them who are opposed to abortion as well as the death penalty.<br /><br />By your logic, laws against murder and stealing are also "imposing religious strictures," since they are prohibited in The Ten Commandments. Do we take those laws off the books now?<br /><br />Here's the important distinction:<br /><br />Murder and stealing violate not just God's laws, but the natural rights of others, so laws against these acts are grounded in the bedrock foundation of the political philosophy this republic was founded upon.<br /><br />Laws against sodomy, adultery, birth control and firearm ownership should rightly be called out as unconstitutional because these laws violate the fundamental rights of individuals to order their personal lives without government interference.<br /><br />Can you see how this is a coherent approach to viewing our rights?<br /><br />Please stay tuned. I have an article on this subject planned for Monday, and I would love to hear what you, Shaw and others have to say about it.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-37278678278233422022012-02-11T10:19:02.556-07:002012-02-11T10:19:02.556-07:00That's not the issue Shaw, the principle is.
...That's not the issue Shaw, the principle is.<br /><br />Empower government to give you something, and that same government can take it away.<br /><br />My point is simply that government should stay out of it. This is in the sphere of personal liberty, and government has no right intruding there.<br /><br />Let the drug makers make the drugs, and let people who want them buy them.<br /><br />If health insurance were decoupled from employment much of this controversy would go away.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.com