tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post1994856400612568410..comments2023-09-15T08:07:28.542-06:00Comments on Western Hero: Congratulations Utah!Silverfiddlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-37027346446896460832011-05-11T15:04:18.404-06:002011-05-11T15:04:18.404-06:00Silver, Amen to that!Silver, Amen to that!Trekkie4Everhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226981394122557804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-68821944959478094812011-05-10T16:21:30.191-06:002011-05-10T16:21:30.191-06:00Yes Leticia, and it's not just "people sh...Yes Leticia, and it's not just "people should be allowed to defend themselves." <br /><br />It is "we have a God-given right to defend ourselves."Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-15203966799681736722011-05-10T14:40:32.760-06:002011-05-10T14:40:32.760-06:00I believe citizens with no criminal records should...I believe citizens with no criminal records should be allowed to own firearms.<br /><br />I don't carry one, but I keep one in our house. In my neighborhood you would be crazy not to have protection.<br /><br />People should be allowed to defend themselves against those who try to do them harm.Trekkie4Everhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226981394122557804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-3829762167769873772011-05-10T12:03:36.837-06:002011-05-10T12:03:36.837-06:00Jack: You make perfect sense, which means you wil...Jack: You make perfect sense, which means you will get nowhere with Jersey.<br /><br />He does not believe in Lockean natural rights. He believe his rights come from the state. It all makes sense now, doesn't it?Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-87568215984989413932011-05-10T10:35:52.036-06:002011-05-10T10:35:52.036-06:00Jersey, I'm really having a hard time understa...Jersey, I'm really having a hard time understanding what your argument is.<br /><br />We've said here countless times that we all agree that guns should be kept out of the hands of criminals, and that they should not be manufactured and sold without regulation. So why do you keep insisting that we all want guns to be so ubiquitous as to bring back the Wild Wild West?<br /><br />And I'm really not getting the whole phallus argument. You must have ignored my knife analogy, yes?<br /><br />Look, if you're a person who believes in natural rights theory, then you have to believe that we have a right to bear arms.<br /><br />It goes beyond government and militia. John Locke posited that the only way we can be happy in life is if we have a modicum of prosperity. Property enables that, so property becomes something sacred, essential to everyone's pursuit of happiness.<br /><br />The government is supposed to protect our property for us, so we don't have to spend all of our time protecting it ourselves. But what if the government no longer protects it, or how do we protect our property against the government? This is why every human has the right to bear arms, because every human has the right to defend what belongs to him.<br /><br />If you don't believe that, then you might be living in the wrong country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-7916369208912103802011-05-10T10:10:50.835-06:002011-05-10T10:10:50.835-06:00"... it's criminals all over the streets...."... it's criminals all over the streets. Thank liberal apologists for that.<br /><br />That, sir, is the definetive reply. Well done, Silver.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-17707878780039199982011-05-10T03:27:56.357-06:002011-05-10T03:27:56.357-06:00Jersey- You need to come shooting with me some tim...Jersey- You need to come shooting with me some time. There are few things more gratifying than hitting a moving target on the run. Yeah I'm nut, you should try it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-47830737199530914752011-05-10T00:01:45.817-06:002011-05-10T00:01:45.817-06:00For goodness sake Jersey, you get sodomized by a ....For goodness sake Jersey, you get sodomized by a .45 caliber Phallus? Did we learn a new word today my little Genius? The word is spelled Phalluses, not Phallices. <br /><br />I'm generally very forgiving of typos and misspellings, but you, genius, belabor the point. To think that your are going to settle debate or make a point by being obnoxious is just trolling.<br /><br />"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." -- Aristotle<br /><br />"quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] <br />-- Seneca the younger<br /><br />It is a debate that has been raging for two thousand years, and it is a right that descends to our Constitution through English Common Law. Existent long before being codified in the English Bill of Rights after James II took to disarming his political opponents.<br /><br />"The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave." -- James Burgh, British Whig Politician, his three volume treatise "Political Disquisitions" was recommended by Thomas Jefferson to James Madison and James Monroe.<br /><br />What part of the Second Amendment do you not understand?<br /><br />I'll leave you to your nanny state fascist ignorance with a final quote from Thomas Jefferson's library:<br /><br /><br />False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. <br />--Cesare BeccariaFinntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-33161884096583571972011-05-09T21:12:13.251-06:002011-05-09T21:12:13.251-06:00It means law abiding citizens have an unalienable ...It means law abiding citizens have an unalienable right to own firearms. Remember that Supreme Court case last year? <br /><br />The problem is guns all over the streets, it's criminals all over the streets. Thank liberal apologists for that. Instead of understanding criminals, we should simply be locking them up.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-36033493907004971892011-05-09T20:58:07.287-06:002011-05-09T20:58:07.287-06:00Okay, my little geniuses, what part of the rest of...Okay, my little geniuses, what part of the rest of the Second Aendment do you not understand?<br /><br />Nice try Hayden. I have a zillion quips a day. The point here is that this 2nd Amendment argument never gets anywhere. It is devoid of logic. It's phallices and Americana and ideology and religion all rolled up into an unintelligible cluster#@$#. It's pointless. We are going to have guns all over the streets for the foreseeable future. Thanks a lot for that.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-27594921302618908302011-05-09T20:27:57.971-06:002011-05-09T20:27:57.971-06:00Aw Jersey just learned a new word, is all, now he ...Aw Jersey just learned a new word, is all, now he wants to see how many times he can reference it, albeit, in quite a disturbing consistency...<br /><br />If he really wanted to learn something useful, he would stop listening to the idiotic talking points of the left and start to apply his own critical thinking skills, if any have survived the years of non-use.Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241011687600471054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-65442059965411123272011-05-09T19:29:33.658-06:002011-05-09T19:29:33.658-06:00Great quote from Carl Wimmer!Great quote from Carl Wimmer!Mike aka Proofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08931553845065187278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-42029090895400314522011-05-09T19:09:00.169-06:002011-05-09T19:09:00.169-06:00If it weren't for my choice to carry, I might ...If it weren't for my choice to carry, I might not be here right now. I owe it to my kids to carry always and practice often. I'm the only one with the responsibility to protect me. The right to protect myself <b>by any means necessary</b> is absolute, whether a law imposed by a group of corrupt politicians says I do or not. That inherent right antedates and supersedes any such artificial law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-39097674127560035802011-05-09T18:53:43.091-06:002011-05-09T18:53:43.091-06:00Mustang: It appears Jersey's mind is weighed ...Mustang: It appears Jersey's mind is weighed down with penis envy.<br /><br />And Jersey, no one here is advocating selling guns to criminals. <br /><br />Thanks for the comedy relief!Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-76808968467105872362011-05-09T18:24:45.385-06:002011-05-09T18:24:45.385-06:00Let’s try it again, Jersey … but this time, try so...Let’s try it again, Jersey … but this time, try some intellectual honesty. I know, this is a new concept for you. Go ahead, look it up. I know you want to. <br /><br />The Second Amendment states, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” What part of “… the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” do you not understand? <br /><br />You come here day-after-nauseous-day telling us how smart you are —but you cannot discern the operative part of a single sentence Amendment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-91010730034662427242011-05-09T17:32:41.174-06:002011-05-09T17:32:41.174-06:00Our goofy Illinois governor (Pat Quinn-D Il, who w...Our goofy Illinois governor (Pat Quinn-D Il, who was Blago's lt gov) vowed to veto a concealed carry law that passed in the Illinois house earlier, stating something to the effect that if we all were packing hidden heat, if someone bumped into another in the grocery store, a gunfight would erupt, and he wanted to prevent such occurences. Puh-leeeze.<br /><br />This, from a guy who has armed protection surrounding him constantly. But when it comes to our protection, screw us.Freddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10778430453468720627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-23158018418237800572011-05-09T16:22:51.605-06:002011-05-09T16:22:51.605-06:00I have no problem with the Seocnd Amendment. It&#...I have no problem with the Seocnd Amendment. It's pretty simple, really. But like any right, there are limits. The right to keep and bear arms does not include the right to sell them to criminals, or to manufacture then without regulation. The entire purpose of the Second Amendment is explained right in it - A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state...<br /><br />The "militia" is a the armed citizery of the United States. And that militia can and must be well-regulated.<br /><br />You guys are utterly ignorant of the Second Amendment. You completely ignore it's purpose and wording. All you care about is your little metal phallices. Tell me - do you polish them daily? Careful, if you polish them the wrong way, you might go blind!<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-57882340255722742272011-05-09T14:47:24.607-06:002011-05-09T14:47:24.607-06:00Good point Silver. You can't really believe i...Good point Silver. You can't really believe in natural rights theory, or John Locke's ideas about the right to obtain and protect property, if you don't believe in the 2nd Amendment.<br /><br />And as Sam mentioned, laws that restrict gun ownership only affect law abiding citizens, who generally don't commit said violent crimes. The criminals will continue to get their guns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-43623819355534408072011-05-09T13:37:43.637-06:002011-05-09T13:37:43.637-06:00@ Jack: Plus, the argument can be made that less ...@ Jack: <i>Plus, the argument can be made that less restrictive gun laws don't necessarily lead to less gun-related crimes.</i><br /><br />Indeed, and in any case, this erodes the gun-grabbers' argument, which is presumably statistics-based. <br /><br />We on the pro-gun side argue from a 2nd Amendment/natural rights perspective, statistics be damned. If we unconstituitonally restricted free speech rights less people would have their feelings hurt.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-16951724851285765682011-05-09T13:08:53.100-06:002011-05-09T13:08:53.100-06:00Statistics are mere indicators of phenomena. Crim...Statistics are mere indicators of phenomena. Criminals in Chicago and Washington DC are exempt from restrictive firearms laws —which gives them an interesting monopoly, and not surprisingly, both cities have vastly higher percentages of crime involving handguns. Because criminal behavior is a concern, law-abiding citizens may not possess or carry firearms. The mental gymnastics behind this situation escapes me. But as Silver Fiddle said, the psychopathology of leftists has provided alienists with a wonderful career opportunity.Sam Huntingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14780557316548397352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-57789201041331252962011-05-09T12:25:30.903-06:002011-05-09T12:25:30.903-06:00There aren't going to be cities in Utah that a...There aren't going to be cities in Utah that are as densely populated as some in California.<br /><br />Plus, the argument can be made that less restrictive gun laws don't necessarily lead to less gun-related crimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-15652788170018305532011-05-09T11:49:31.031-06:002011-05-09T11:49:31.031-06:00@Jez: Meanwhile, my reading indicates the evidenc...@Jez: <i>Meanwhile, my reading indicates the evidence really shows a correlation between gun ownership and gun crime.</i><br /><br />Duh! And there's also a correlation between car ownership and involvement in car accidents.<br /><br />You can talk population density all day long (Utah does have cities, last time I checked), but you cannot show that restrictive gun laws result in less gun crime, because no such data existssSilverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-76897104787620438912011-05-09T11:12:35.203-06:002011-05-09T11:12:35.203-06:00Jersey,
Insults are indicative of the intellectual...Jersey,<br />Insults are indicative of the intellectual quality of one's arguments. You'd probably do better to refrain from calling people stupid when you're trying to argue a point.<br /><br />First, I don't think anyone here has said that we don't need to make gun owning safer and smarter. I don't think anyone here objects to criminal background checks.<br /><br />I would agree that guns in the home increase the likelihood of accidents, but murder and suicide? If you want to murder someone, there are plenty of ways to do it without a gun, same with suicide. Outlaw gun ownership, and I'm sure that murders would not decrease, and we'd see an increase in murder by stabbing, beating, poisoning etc. We'd probably also see a lot more people slitting their wrists, hanging themselves, or purposely overdosing on medications. Guns are not like the One Ring in Lord of the Rings. They don't magically call to their wielders to use them illicitly.<br /><br />Secondly, to equate guns to phallic symbols is rather juvenile. Knives are closer, so every time I cut my steak am I actually subconsciously thinking about jacking off? Or are you trying to assert that anything that is perceived as masculine or powerful is somehow phallic?<br /><br />Some people are just interested in guns. It's not necessarily about power. For me, target shooting is fun. I'm a fairly good shot, and I like to brag among my friends about it.<br /><br />Anyway, further restricting the use and ownership of firearms is not going to solve many problems. The good, responsible citizens who don't go bonkers with their guns would be denied a constitutional right, and the wackoes intent on using the weapons for criminal purposes would still get their guns via extra-legal channels. Just like the drug problem hasn't been solved by making drugs illegal, gun-related crimes will not be solved by making guns illegal.<br /><br />That's just the reality of the human condition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-72017328421243171642011-05-09T11:09:02.762-06:002011-05-09T11:09:02.762-06:00Silverfiddle, you'd have to normalize for othe...Silverfiddle, you'd have to normalize for other variables before this could be evidence for anything. Population density is the most obvious problem in comparing Utah to Chicago.<br /><br />Meanwhile, my reading indicates the evidence really shows a correlation between gun ownership and gun crime.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-17150714741505141032011-05-09T09:05:50.066-06:002011-05-09T09:05:50.066-06:00Jersey: Keep your sexual hangups to yourself, ple...Jersey: Keep your sexual hangups to yourself, please.<br /><br />Neither you nor Jez can refute what I've said. The Brady nuts rated Utah a zero, but they rank very low on gun crime.<br /><br />The evidence shows that restrictive gun laws do not lower gun violence. Just ask people from Chicago.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.com