tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post6848797873966728230..comments2023-09-15T08:07:28.542-06:00Comments on Western Hero: Gay New YorkSilverfiddlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-72891041027528291032011-06-29T07:09:20.646-06:002011-06-29T07:09:20.646-06:00Good morning, Karen,
You said, "Um, we'r...Good morning, Karen,<br /><br />You said, <i>"Um, we're not the ones doing the forcing of convictions on the entire population through the legislative process. That would be the gay militants.</i><br /><br />I don't disagree. If you've gotten my drift from things I've consistently said over a long period of time, you know that I am anti-militant, anti-activist, anti-statist, anti-collectivist, and above all pro-liberty and -- like Thomas Jefferson -- <b>"I am hostile to <i>any</i> form of tyranny over the mind of Man."</b><br /><br />It's important that we all try to understand one anther better rather than jump to conclusions based on a sentence or two latched onto here and there from a long series of remarks. <b>My saying that Christians have no right under the Constitution to establish a theocracy doesn't mean I support militant gay activism.</b> <br /><br />I am a lifelong Christian, but I believe Christianity should be spread by each individual "letting his or her light so shine before men that they see their good works, which glorify their Father which is in Heaven." The idea of Authoritarian Christianity is a contradiction in terms and is as abhorrent to me as Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Islamism or any other entity that tries to force its will on people.<br /><br />Just as so-called liberals would like to make their particular beliefs the law of the land, so would many who consider themselves Christian. <b>It is to the entire concept of Power Grabbing and Dictatorship -- <i>from any and every faction</i> -- that I strenuously object.</b><br /><br />It is not up to us to try to ensure the salvation of others. Working out our own is a full time job, and in the end each one of us must achieve salvation on our own. God is our refuge and strength and our only legitimate source of help in matters spiritual.<br /><br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-78763855950745349022011-06-28T20:29:46.750-06:002011-06-28T20:29:46.750-06:00FT,
"However, the Constitution never has -- ...FT,<br /><br />"However, the Constitution never has -- and never should -- permit you or anyone else to force your religious convictions on the entire population through the legislative process." <br /><br />Um, we're not the ones doing the forcing of convictions on the entire population through the legislative process. That would be the gay militants.<br /><br />It's like how Christians are accused of being obsessed with sex... classic projection.Karen Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02595488513595951006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-56515643974900159222011-06-28T16:49:39.716-06:002011-06-28T16:49:39.716-06:00I think I was quite clear in what I said.
You can...I think I was quite clear in what I said.<br /><br />You can hate the sin, but love the sinner to Jesus Christ.Trekkie4Everhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226981394122557804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-91706380854938106612011-06-28T15:47:16.285-06:002011-06-28T15:47:16.285-06:00Jack:
Thank you for your thoughtful, impassioned ...Jack:<br /><br />Thank you for your thoughtful, impassioned remarks. I think you are mostly correct. Issues such as Gay Marriage are a big red herring that takes us off the track of pursuing the genuinely serious concerns that threaten all US citizens -- gay, straight, religious, atheistic, rich, poor, young, old, black, white, urban, rural, Jewish, anti-Semitic, -- even Muslim -- alike. We will not have a country in which we may safely disagree much longer if we don't focus on essential issues. Gay marriage isn't one of them. <br /><br />Karen, Leticia and others who feel similarly:<br /><br />The Constitution -- as it now stands -- allows you and others who believe as you do to live your lives in accordance with your religious beliefs, and to proselytize for those beliefs in any legitimate forum. <br /><br />However, the Constitution never has -- <i>and never should</i> -- permit you or anyone else to force your religious convictions on the entire population through the legislative process. That would be tyranny, which was abhorrent to the mind of our Founders. Theocratic tyranny is every bit as evil as any other kind of tyranny.<br /><br />As Shakespeare said in Hamlet, <i>"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."</i><br /><br />What some want to regard as vile, others may deem sacred. As has often been said,<i>"One man's meat is another man's poison."</i> <br /><br /><i>"There's a wideness in God's mercy<br />Like the wideness of the sea.<br />There's a kindness in His Justice<br />that transfigures you and me..."</i><br /><br />It would be wise for all to stop dwelling on the "motes" they see in the eyes of others, and think more about removing the "beams" that distort their own vision. <br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-47120167418488239882011-06-28T14:25:32.539-06:002011-06-28T14:25:32.539-06:00Gay "marriage" is a very serious blow to...Gay "marriage" is a very serious blow to western civilization. A lethal one, in fact, as Dennis Prager pointed out in a fantastic 1993 article: once you say that two men or women can "marry", then the traditional and healthy bounds that Judeo-Christian mores put on sexuality-- the bounds of heretosexual matrimony-- are GONE. <br /><br />Remove those boundaries, and there's no reason not to allow polygamy (horrendous to the lives and status of women), pedophilia, beastiality, or anything else.Karen Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02595488513595951006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-23960487490867270892011-06-28T09:17:09.725-06:002011-06-28T09:17:09.725-06:00Everyone needs to learn about Cultural Marxism. Th...Everyone needs to learn about Cultural Marxism. The scales should drop from your eyes after reading this article, although hard core leftists are lost souls and impervious to truth.<br /><br />http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/cultural_marxism.html<br /><br />Copy the link, paste it into you browser, click and read. <br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-32897912725459650372011-06-28T08:31:59.968-06:002011-06-28T08:31:59.968-06:00Muslim advocate groups are going to have a tough t...Muslim advocate groups are going to have a tough time striking down established case law banning polygamy.<br /><br />It will probably exist on the fringes like that christian cult group in Texas but it just isn't going to be overturned in court.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-80110966523822555262011-06-28T07:00:07.411-06:002011-06-28T07:00:07.411-06:00Jesus H. Christ.
For those of you who are Republi...Jesus H. Christ.<br /><br />For those of you who are Republican and opposing gay marriage, why the heck are you doing so? I thought Republicans believed in freedom of choice? I thought the whole idea of liberty was to live your life the way you choose to live it so long as you're not causing any real harm to anyone else?<br /><br />How the heck does gay marriage harm you in any way? Does it hurt your feelings, or make you uncomfortable? If so, that doesn't qualify as real harm. And what's the harm in kids not being giant bigots to other human beings because of their sexual orientation? I thought all men are created equal by their creator, yes?<br /><br />Sure, dude on dude action is not my cup of tea. And although I'm not a big fan of gay pride parades, my question is: what choice have people like you all given them? They've been spit on and treated like second class citizens for years, and now they want to be able to feel like they can be proud of who they are. Had homosexuality been accepted in American society, there wouldn't be any gay pride parades. If homosexuality is accepted, in the sense that homosexuals aren't treated like they are people who should be straight or off themselves, then you'll see gay pride parades go away.<br /><br />And if you think this is some sort of conspiratorial attack on traditional religion, get over yourself and your religion. Is slavery okay? Is genocide okay? Is it okay to kill the women and children of a people you're conquering to maintain your racial purity and "loyalty" to God? Is God really going to care whether or not your earthly body was circumcised?<br /><br />Those are all things in Leviticus that we would find abhorent today (with the exception of circumcision). Jesus said "turn the other cheek" to advocate pacifism and non-violence, but he didn't say a damn thing about slavery, and slavery always has been and always will be wrong.<br /><br />So why are we picking and choosing which standards in the bible we're supposed to enforce? How about we, as liberty loving Repuiblicans, Libertarians, conservatives or whatever, let people live their lives the way they want to and not tell them that they can't enjoy the full rights of every other American citizen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-63367010185638911852011-06-28T03:56:49.378-06:002011-06-28T03:56:49.378-06:00I happened to catch a program this evening about t...I happened to catch a program this evening about this with a gay fellow who was surprisingly sour for someone who just got what he wanted. I couldn't believe my ears when i heard that republicans actually passed this.<br /><br />And some of the rats who voted for it actually stood on a platform of the exact opposite. It's just unbelievable. I know democrats would easily do it, but republicans, i really wonder what they got in return.<br /><br />I wonder if they were high on pot and thought they'd get the gay vote to win reelection. LOL, good luck with that scumbags. Heck, they didn't even get a thank you from the gay fellow who was whining about marrying his boyfriend.<br /><br />Guess even they frown upon treachery even if it works in their favor.MathewKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14385674205383405783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-56941987769089194042011-06-28T00:31:02.573-06:002011-06-28T00:31:02.573-06:00"Can anyone keep a straight face while tellin..."Can anyone keep a straight face while telling me Muslim advocacy groups will not bring lawsuits to strike down polygamy bans?"<br /><br />Off course not, if you allow gay marriage, you have no reason to deny polygamy, you have no reason to deny 10 men from getting married to each other for that matter.<br /><br />Leftards will weasel around saying it's complex and they're not sure and all that. They're either too stupid to think ahead or know this and don't care.<br /><br />For leftards there are no limits.<br /><br />On a side note, expect New York to go the way of California, scratching its ass trying to figure out why it's in the toilet.MathewKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14385674205383405783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-64515160924429756442011-06-27T22:52:05.609-06:002011-06-27T22:52:05.609-06:00If you want to look at a brief summary of how we g...If you want to look at a brief summary of how we got where we are, please take a good look at Linda Kimball's excellent summary telling the story of the roots and rise of Cultural Marxism published in 2007 in American Thinker:<br /><br />http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/cultural_marxism.html<br /><br />Gramsci was a brilliant malcontent -- the seminal pervert who inspired The Frankfurt School to devise ways to infiltrate the educational system and pollute the minds of young people with Marxian sophistry that appeals easily to humanity's basest instincts. <br /><br />Cultural Marxism and the Critical Theory <i>[i.e. the tactic of perpetrating relentless, ruthless, unprincipled attacks on the targeted "host" culture either on trumped up pretexts or completely without rhyme or reason]</i> it spawned have so polluted the American Mind over the past eighty-odd years that we who've been around a long while can no longer recognize the land of our birth. <br /><br />These unwelcome changes did not occur by accident or by any natural process of "cultural evolution." The movement was dreamed up in the minds of a few evil geniuses and took us unawares in the days of our innocence.<br /><br />Trestin I agree with you, and made your same point earlier on this thread in these words addressed to Father Gregori:<br /><br /><br /><i><b> ...the Gay Rights Movement -- and all the other minority "rights" and "liberation" movements -- are examples of the Left exploiting legitimate or quasi-legitimate issues and grievances to further the leftist agenda to take over this once-relatively-free society, and subjugate it to the dictates of an almighty Nanny State dedicated to the proposition that all men and all property belongs inherently to the State to use and dispose of as the State sees fit.</b></i> <br /><br /><b><i>There would be no place for God, for freedom of choice or for individual rights in the society the Left would foist on us by using the pretext of wanting "equal rights for all" as a ploy to give the Marxists enough leverage to gain control.</i></b><br /><br />Those so indoctrinated have been cleverly conditioned --<i> brainwashed</i> -- to regard truth as falsehood, good as evil, error as righteous, disease as health, insanity as clear-minded thinking, depravity as a healthy expression of individuality, etc. etc. etc. <br /><br /><b>Leftists don't PRETEND that conservatives and libertarians are wrong, they really BELIEVE it.</b> That's the true horror of it.<br /><br />That's what nearly a century of intellectual aggression and mass hypnosis by demonically clever fiends can do to a once-decent people.<br /><br />Read Linda Kimball's article. It's pivotal if not seminal.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-81852745325881650962011-06-27T21:24:38.643-06:002011-06-27T21:24:38.643-06:00In The Prison Notebooks, Gramsci doesn't have ...In The Prison Notebooks, Gramsci doesn't have much of anything to say about homosexuals as part of the new class to effectively challenge the ideologies of the educated classes.<br /><br />You really should rethink your interpretation of Gramsci.<br /><br />SEIZE THE CULTURE ! True that.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-27116263793008654552011-06-27T21:06:53.570-06:002011-06-27T21:06:53.570-06:00Jersey you are either delusional or being deceptiv...Jersey you are either delusional or being deceptive. The whole purpose of the gay movement is to attach traditional religion. <br /><br />Before you counter with your incoherently leftist talking points. Let me assure you have have studied the issue ant length and am full aware of the cultural Marxist roots of the gay movement. Antonio Gramsci would be partying like it's 1999 if here were alive today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-40337243043909710422011-06-27T20:55:04.186-06:002011-06-27T20:55:04.186-06:00FreeThinke,
To heck with the Bible.
In real life...FreeThinke,<br /><br />To heck with the Bible.<br /><br />In real life, where you and I reside, there are children of gay parents. When I speak of "normal," I mean making life as "normal" for them as possible. Do you have a problem with that?<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-21452386319057954512011-06-27T19:38:58.109-06:002011-06-27T19:38:58.109-06:00Civil marriage is a CONTRACT. The government regul...Civil marriage is a CONTRACT. The government regulates contract as a matter of social order.<br /><br />Easy.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-25918449296578634182011-06-27T18:42:09.201-06:002011-06-27T18:42:09.201-06:00Why attach a barb at Leticia?
"This is a ver...Why attach a barb at Leticia?<br /><br />"This is a very sad day for America and for traditional marriage."<br /><br />So just how is this going to affect traditional marriage. We hear that same canard constantly. Just some sound bite people get from rabies radio. No reasoning behind it.<br />Does the right ever try to defend their aphorisms?<br /><br />Anyone who does not understand that marriage has been a dynamic institution throughout human history simply isn't paying attention.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-88732936472994323012011-06-27T18:16:07.812-06:002011-06-27T18:16:07.812-06:00Finn: Well stated. I'm with you, although I ...Finn: Well stated. I'm with you, although I only alluded to this aspect with my contract law comment.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-52487945387666834772011-06-27T18:15:28.019-06:002011-06-27T18:15:28.019-06:00SilverFiddle,
I read Frank J's item ands all ...SilverFiddle,<br /><br />I read Frank J's item ands all the comments that followed many of which were intelligent and well-phrased.<br /><br />If I had to choose a specific policy regarding this issue (which Im personally, do not think should <i>be</i> an issue), I would support Frank's position as stated here:<br /><br /><i>"Given that marriage is a religious institution that the government participates in, [a] logical response [would be] ...</i><br /><br /><i><b>Have [marriage] removed from government entirely because of the separation of church and state, and simply allow the government to recognize legal contracts between two or more adults, allowing [those couples involved] to put whatever ceremony on it they want.</b></i><br /><br />There's so much to say, and yet it's really very simple. But people love to make things more difficult than they need to be.<br /><br />Personally, I'm against trying to mind other people's business from either a liberal or a conservative point of view. Life's hard enough without our constantly digging up ways to make it even harder.<br /><br />There really are MUCH more important problems to solve and issues to address -- like cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, chronic irascibility and the inability to exercise thrift and other forms of self-discipline.<br /><br />Intelligent, practical EDUCATION would help a great deal, instead of this inane running battle between flawed, failed and sometimes fatal ideologies.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-26888285916404841542011-06-27T17:47:14.587-06:002011-06-27T17:47:14.587-06:00Personally, from a Libertarian perspective, I thin...Personally, from a Libertarian perspective, I think you are all looking at it backwards.<br /><br />No one has put forth a valid argument defending why government should be involved in marriage at all. The argument that government needs to incentivize us to reproduce collapses in the face of a 40% unmarried birth rate and a DINK (Dual-Income No Kids) rate approaching 20%. It is even more ridiculous since there is forecast to be seven billion of us come October.<br /><br />As far as Polygamy goes, it wasn't illegal (on the federal level) until 1862 with the Morril Anti-Bigamy Act, and was targeted specifically at the Morman church. The law not only outlawed bigamy, but also specifically targeted Mormans in the Utah Territory by limiting church ownership in any territory to $50,000. Polygamy was made a federal felony in 1882 by the Edmunds Act with unlawful cohabitation being a misdemeanor (obviating the need to prove a marriage had taken place). This was ammended in 1887 to disincorporate the LDS church. On a side note, for some odd reason all of the sponsors of the bills were from Vermont.<br /><br />And no, I'm not a Morman, or a polygamist...if you were wondering.<br /><br />So in summary, just why should government have a role in anything other than civil partnerships?<br /><br />Cheers!Finntannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234170229108668040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-35703473344336923532011-06-27T17:36:03.918-06:002011-06-27T17:36:03.918-06:00Despite Ducky's comments, my points still stan...Despite Ducky's comments, my points still stand, including the fact that no society in history has bestowed upon gay marriage the same import as the hetero variety. There may be a few statistical outliers and anecdotal instances, but for obvious reasons I've already stated, we don't find anything more than that.<br /><br />For a much more concise treatment of this issue, see Frank J's take at <a href="http://www.imao.us/index.php/2011/06/the-arguments-for-gay-marriage-are-incoherent/" rel="nofollow">IMHO</a>Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-11861397446408551522011-06-27T16:47:23.367-06:002011-06-27T16:47:23.367-06:00Ducky,
You ask a very good question -- one I was ...Ducky,<br /><br />You ask a very good question -- one I was just about to ask, myself, as a matter of fact -- but why attach a barb to it aimed at Leticia? All that does is weaken and divert attention from the point you're trying to make. <br /><br /><br />Jersey,<br /><br />Live and let live is the most desirable policy always, but homosexuality is not <i>normal</i>. I believe it to be a natural <i>variation</i> found in every society, but it is not "normal." Heterosexuality is the norm. Most people are heterosexual, and are, therefore, ill-equipped to understand homosexuality. Leviticus certainly hasn't helped in that regard, but to say the gay lifestyle, as it is generally practiced in our urban areas, is a desirable thing that ought to be regarded as "normal" is too big a stretch even for a Toryesque old libertarian like me.<br /><br />To try to put the traditional view of homosexuality in perspective: How would you feel if you woke up one day, and found the wife you'd lived with for 20-odd years had grown a tail during the night -- or was suddenly covered with thick brown fur all over her back?<br /><br />That's ABOUT how shocking and disturbing it must be for average folk to discover that one of their children -- or a friend they thought they'd known for a long time, but didn't -- turned out to be queer. <br /><br />Have a little compassion for the majority man.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-75012871348041017932011-06-27T16:21:19.829-06:002011-06-27T16:21:19.829-06:00Oh, give a rest already. It's like a Southern...Oh, give a rest already. It's like a Southern Baptist social sermon around here.<br /><br />Really, in real, tangible life, this is no big deal.<br /><br />You're the ones inventing a big deal of it.<br /><br />If anything, gay marraige is a good idea.<br /><br />Marraige encourages family, stability, monogamy, security, good health, etc etc. It's good for society.<br /><br />If gay people want to get married, good for them and good for us - and good for all our progeny. And yes, gay people have progeny, so don't forget about them.<br /><br />If you care about innocent children, be happy about what just happened in New York. Their lives just got a little more normal and easier, as it should be.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-41005229224942219272011-06-27T16:17:56.205-06:002011-06-27T16:17:56.205-06:00I'm sorry. I meant to say:
Harassment and dis...I'm sorry. I meant to say:<br /><br /><i>Harassment and discrimination towards non-conformists who live <b>quietly</b> according to the dictates of their conscience, should <b>NOT</b> be proscribed by law.</i><br /><br />My meaning should have been obvious from the context, but there's no excuse for carelessness like that. I apologize too for other errors I have made. I've never been a good typist, have poor eyesight, arthritis, and am getting old to boot. But all that is still no excuse. <br /><br />It's astonishing how you can think you've said something very clearly, and later find out that through careless omission you've said the exact opposite of what you intended.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-76113484318273678942011-06-27T16:05:43.645-06:002011-06-27T16:05:43.645-06:00What does this have to do with so called "tra...What does this have to do with so called "traditional marriage"?<br /><br />Your man going to walk out and hook up with a guy, Leticia? Just what does "traditional marriage" lose by allowing same sex marriages?<br /><br />I'd like to know where silverfiddle studied the sociology of marriage (Hint: he didn't). Just another right winger spouting. So we've evolved to the point that the civil contract called marriage can include gays. Just what did you lose?Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7674333464171899932.post-78681287345870153722011-06-27T15:55:37.157-06:002011-06-27T15:55:37.157-06:00If we must speak of "unnatural lifestyles,&qu...If we must speak of "unnatural lifestyles," the one I would find most unnatural of all would have to be <i>celibacy.</i><br /><br />I realize this does not apply to Father Gregori, but I want to be sure everyone realizes the quip was not aimed at him.<br /><br />Cheerio!<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com