"We can't go back to the same policies that got us into this mess. We've got to move forward," -- President Obama
Amen to that! President Obama is right: We can’t go back to his old, failed way of doing things. Government must stop backstopping crony crapitalists that take our money and blow it. GM still owes us tens of billions and will never pay it back, Solyndra and all those green companies and battery makers going belly-up, all at taxpayer expense, banks writing bad loans because the government promised to underwrite them...
Capitalism made us prosperous, not government. Yes, government provided the infrastructure and the legal framework necessary for free markets to flourish, and we need government for that. But government has not made one poor person rich. Government programs are a palliative at best; a disincentive at worst.
"Standard Procedures"
A TSA victim, describing that agency bravely stamping out a terror threat from her 4 year old granddaughter, summed it up perfectly:
"Standard Procedure" is stupid procedure and it's legal cover for unthinking government slugs to practice all manner of predations upon us.
State-sponsored crony crapitalism has failed. Time to try free-market capitalism, and it starts with government getting the hell out of the marketplace. Picking winners and losers with our tax dollars is a thinly disguised reward for the politically well-connected.
Capitalism made us prosperous, not government. Yes, government provided the infrastructure and the legal framework necessary for free markets to flourish, and we need government for that. But government has not made one poor person rich. Government programs are a palliative at best; a disincentive at worst.
"Standard Procedures"
A TSA victim, describing that agency bravely stamping out a terror threat from her 4 year old granddaughter, summed it up perfectly:
"There was no common sense and there was no compassion" (TSA Defends Patdown of 4-Year-Old)That describes government: No compassion and no common sense. It is a machine; a clanking soulless beast with claws and hooks where it’s hands should be, and wrecking balls for feet, smashing all in its path. Government statements after the latest rape and grope outrage stating that the incident was reviewed and the agents were following “standard procedure” only indicts our government further. I'll leave aside the obvious comparisons to Lt Calley and "just following orders."
"Standard Procedure" is stupid procedure and it's legal cover for unthinking government slugs to practice all manner of predations upon us.
62 comments:
Isn't it sad, most people I talk to don't even know what Solyndra is. Or Fast and Furious for that matter.
Hack,
So true. So many people are sucking up the swill dished out by the mainstream media.
When I point these ignormuses to sites on the web, these people deprecate the sources as right wing. Many folks merely LEANING LEFT will not even look at sources other than those of the mainstream media. Perhaps worse, they get their "information" from television "news broadcasts." So many people don't read much of anything related to political science.
As long as stories stay buried and out of sight, most people remain ignorant of those stories.
State-sponsored crony crapitalism has failed.
-----
For whom? It's doing just fine for Kapital.
The nose pickers who pass for an electorate and talk Obama vs. Romney deserve what they get.
Silverfiddle,
It really IS all about killing capitalism.
That fact was brought home to me the other day when I watched a news story about diet plans (I'm keenly interested in diet plans right now as I'm on the Ideal Protein Diet). By the end of the discussion in the video, all on the panel concluded that "the problem is capitalism" because it is capitalism that offers so many food choices.
I kid you not!
The word "capitalism" actually was uttered, and everyone on the panel nodded his head in agreement as to the evils of capitalism as related to the obesity epidemic.
Yes AOW, it's all out in the open now. Socialism used to be taboo, but not anymore. We are a product of our progressive public school system. they've done their job well.
Capitalism gives us choice. Go into any supermarket and 20% of the floor space is soda and chips.
But you get such variety.
I defy Silverfiddle to give any example of socialism taught in contemporary high school.
Wake Up You Stupid Sheep!
Obama and other democrats are sitting on their hands going all over the country fund raising, playing Golf and Basketball and going to Hip-Hop concerts and expensive New York restaurants and spending Millions of our Dollars per day on Air Force One going to campaigns for State Campaigns, and Hollywood parties known as "Fund Raisers" rubbing elbows with the Hollywood elite. While you and I and Millions of other Americans can't even pay our Mortgages.
If Obama wants to Campaign for himself or for someone else, some of the money he raises should go to pay for his trip! It costs us MILLIONS every day for these trips! That's YOUR MONEY, and that's MY MONEY! So Wake up you stupid, stupid sheep!
Obama ONLY says what the crowd he is talking to at the time wants to hear and then goes to another group and says the exact opposite! He is a Liar you know it and I know it.
OK, now you can go ahead and call me a Racist! Who cares, but for the record, I don't like the Man not his race. I don't like Obama's Politics not his Race!
And now we are paying him to appear on that leftist cesspool “The View,” where he had the audacity to say “I’m going to win,” and “I want to re-shape America”!
Well, NO, NO, Zippo, you’re NOT going to win!! Because If you win, America loses.
"That describes government: No compassion and no common sense."
You paint that picture with an extremely wide brush, dude.
It was government that forced states to stop denying African-Americans their civil rights, and soon we'll see the same with LGBT civil rights. I would catagorized that as "compassion."
Compassion? Let's see...ever hear of the Marshall Plan? Pretty good compassion there, no?
No common sense? I would say it was "common sense" to stop allowing cigarette companies to glamorize smoking and pitching that deadly habit to kids. I understand most libertarians don't like it when government saves us from our dangerous stupidity, but I find it a good thing when "we the people" decide that saving Americans' lives is a good common sense goal.
Government bashing is easy, and it solves nothing.
And I've noticed how loud and passionate it is only when a Democrat is the country's leader.
Yes I do paint with a broad brush, and I've provided specific examples to back it up.
Note that I also said,
Yes, government provided the infrastructure and the legal framework necessary for free markets to flourish, and we need government for that.
Securing our God-given rights and liberty for all is what the federal government is charged with, so we should all applaud when it does it.
You go off the deep end at the end, Shaw. One person's pleasure is another's "dangerous stupidity."
What if a rightwinger took over San Francisco and declared bicycle riding a "dangerous stupidity."
No, you've shown us what's wrong with an overweening government. Leave the people to their liberties so long as they do not prevent others from doing the same.
I defy Ducky to point out where I said schools were teaching socialism. Put on your eyeglasses, take off your biting bias, and re-read.
I defy Silverfiddle to give any example of socialism taught in contemporary high school.
We could start with social promotion, as opposed to demonstrating content mastery. From there, we could imagine students in high school who are only capable of doing math, or reading at the fifth-grade level. Then, we might illustrate the introduction of revisionist history, globalism, and multicultural studies, teaching children how horrible America is and making sure that none of these students ends up believing in American exceptionalism, giving them white guilt for things that happened before they were born, glossing over the absolute horrendous policies of progressive politics repressing blacks in the north and south. We can’t leave out the brainwashing that occurs training our children to accept abhorrent human sexual behavior as a life-style decision.
I have no doubt Ducky will deny this; he is, after all, one of those unionists whose pie hole is full of socialist excrement —a drama queen, literally, whom I suspect indoctrinates his students to hate America as much as he does.
There's nothing one can do, therefore there's really nothing one should say.
The current Establishment has rendered us witless, because 'there's no "there" there.'
Frankly, I'm punch drunk. And that's exactly what "they" want ALL of us to be -- reeling, staggering, falling down from dizziness brought on by the intellectually poisoned atmosphere with which we are surrounded the sheer weight of the insanity dropped on us from a great height every day by the enemedia.
Shoulder up your Cross and march to the beat of THEIR drummer -- or be CRUSHED. There is no justice and no sanity to be found in THIS world. All we can do is hope things will be better in the next.
I, personally, have abandoned hope.
Just serving out my time here hoping to die before 'they" come to frog march me to a "re-education center."
Being an alert, aware independent thinker is no use at all in a world where the majority are mindless, media-brainwashed morons -- OR members of the self-identified Intellectual Elite who have been so conditioned by the Toxic Atmosphere first generated in Academia by The Frankfurt School they are True Believers in the GUANOGANDA that pollutes and thickly encrusts every aspect of their lives.
~ FreeThinke
Hack, your point is well taken, but things are so bad now we actually live in a world where roving reporters can stop people at random in the street and ask them to identify the person represented on the one dollar bill, and MANY will come up with answers like "Duh, I don't know -- some old lady, maybe?"
The level of ignorance, and the kind of stupidity brought on by the relentless disinformation campaign -- i.e. guanoganda tarted up an presented as "truth" -- perpetrated by the "educrats" is incredible.
~ FreeThinke
"It was government that forced states to stop denying African-Americans their civil rights, and soon we'll see the same with LGBT civil rights. I would catagorized that as 'compassion.'"
There's an assumptionthere that the motives behind these initiatives were pure, noble, high-minded and sincere - AND - that the results achieved have been salubrious.
What SOUNDS good may not always BE good.
"All that glitters is not gold," etc.
~ FreeThinke
"You go off the deep end at the end, Shaw. One person's pleasure is another's 'dangerous stupidity.' "
I was very specific about cigarette advertisers targeting children--I said nothing about adults. Yet, I don't know of any adults who would encourage children to smoke.
Your bicycle example is silly, btw.
You did not include in your example the government's enforcement of Constitutionally guaranteed civil rights, only infrastructure and frameworks for free markets to flourish.
We differ in that you believe humans will always do the right thing by their fellow citizens. I've lived long enough to witness that is not true. Government can play a role in making sure a minority is not denied its natural rights. Isn't that a libertarian value?
I most certainly do not believe humans will always do the right thing. We are irrational, stubborn asses, but that is each person's right, so long as she stays within the law.
Speaking of which, my mentioning the legal system includes safeguarding all constitutional rights.
And yes, we agree that all people enjoying equal rights is not just a libertarian principle, but an American one as well.
You may consider my bicycle example silly, but we have mayors, right here in the good ol' US of A trying to dictate to restaurant salt and sugar content.
Look at history. It's all a big joke until you're given a blindfold and pushed up against a wall. I know that's overly-dramatic, but it's a continuum that springs from the urge to control others.
Just wait until the more honest polls start showing 'the anointed one' with a double digit deficit.
Your going to see your buddies over at the Progressive blogs freak out so bad that it will be embarrassing. And the spin jobs will be as funny as Saturday Night Live was when they ridiculed Sarah Palin.
If there ever was a government that demonstrated common sense and compassion for the governed, I am not aware of it. Our Founders gave us the tools to keep our government in check but it was too much work. We do have the government we deserve. A new technologically driven "Dark Age" is in man's future. I'm glad I won't be around to see it.
"Put the Jews in their place."
You really are a lying sack of shit.
COF, I'm very much afraid you are absolutely correct.
The honestly idealistic progressives -- and yes, Virginia, they do exist -- are blissfully unaware of the dangers and impracticability of their dreams and schemes.
~ FreeThinke
Oh please, Anon, spare us your tedious, mind-numbing vulgarity.
People of your ilk are BORING beyond description.
~ FreeThinke
The American Dream
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pHPxynHymQc/T7OUeygzVzI/AAAAAAAAKzs/en0uhPJYD9U/s640/0000+russ.jpg
Hack says it all; until our public gets the information, how can they wisely vote? Imagine not knowing Solyndra or Fast and Furious? Both would have rec'd HUGE backlash in the media had a Republican done either....but, instead.....very little coverage.
You're so right about "standard procedure".....by the way, what happened to CHANGE? :-) I think most AMericans thought he meant GOOD CHANGE>
An important point no one ever seems to raise:
Perhaps the more prosperous and privileged segment of American society does have more money today than ever before, though I doubt it (even the likes of Warren Buffett have suffered tremendous losses in this enduring recession). Anyway, the money we do have continues to have LESS and LESS PURCHASING POWER. A million dollars today is worth no more than -- let us say for sake of argument -- 150K was sixty years ago.
The Pennsylvania Dutch put it quaintly, but succinctly:
The farther ahead I go, the behinder I get.
The issuance of FIAT MONEY (paper currency with no intrinsic value) is probably the single greatest cause of this INFLATION -- a phenomenon Ronald Reagan called "the cruelest tax of all."
How right he was!
The home I lived in as a boy would sell for just-under a million dollars today, even in this tragically impaired real estate market. My parents bought it for 26K in the early 1950's.
What does that tell us? That house was built in 1931. That makes it 81 years old. It probably sold originally for 14-17K.
Is the house in all honesty WORTH any more than it was the day it was first ready for occupancy? No! Because of deterioration brought on by the passage of time, the place has many or problems today than when it was new. Dealing with those problems has become prohibitively expensive, etc., etc., etc.
PROPERTY TAXES, which were only six-hundred dollars-a-year when I was in high school are now SEVENTEEN THOUSAND on that same old, deteriorating, unexpanded house.
What all this indicates to me is that our currency has been increasingly DEVALUED ever since we starting fucking around with Keynesian economic policies.
We struggle harder and harder to get less and less VALUE for our effort and ingenuity.
"Progress" is nothing more than cynically-generated HOAX -- an ILLUSION.
Liberalism is, indeed, a mental disorder.
~ FreeThinke
@silverfiddle -- Yes I do paint with a broad brush, and I've provided specific examples to back it up.
---------
Shaw did also and you dodged them.
Socialism used to be taboo, but not anymore. We are a product of our progressive public school system. they've done their job well.
--------
Reads as if you're saying the schools are pushing socialism.
So I'm curious what you think is so progressive about public schools.
You aren't one of these home schoolers who get bent out of shape because the little dears are learning evolution and have to get along with the homos.
All out in the open now, Nothing under cover anymore, and no one shocked.
But government has not made one poor person rich.
Not true. I read today that the Obama's were now worth $10 million.
try that link again...
...and ducky, YOU of ALL people know that our present state-corporate MERCHANTILIST state is NOT Adam Smith free market capitalism... so why you keep equating merchantilism with FREE markets is beyond me.
Democracy and free-market capitalism go HAND in HAND.
Totalitarianism and merchantilism, the DEGENERATE form, ALSO go HAND in HAND.
It's time that we made a conscious CHOICE as to WHICH we prefer to be.
Because the FORMER variant is most compatible with PEACE, and the LATTER with WAR.
No, we are not home schoolers. The schools here are still halfway sane.
I didn't dodge Shaw's example, it's just that it's kind of nebulous, and I didn't want to get bogged down in a squabble or what the meaning of the word is, is.
The last clear example I was of marketing cigarettes to kids was those old Winston commercial featuring Fred and Wilma Flintstone and Barny and Betty rubble lighting up. I think that was back in the 50's.
Earth to old folks: Every abomination imaginable is available to our children via the internet. Teach them how to think and discern, and they may, just may actually end up less screwed up than us.
Freethinker, stop being so cranky.
Download the WBGO program app, slap it on your iPod, listen and chill.
Silver still argues we shouldn't have allowed the restructuring of GM.
Amazing.
He wants more of the abject failure of the real Milton Friedman school of economics, and less mythical socialism.
All ideology, no reality.
JMJ
FT,
PROPERTY TAXES, which were only six-hundred dollars-a-year when I was in high school are now SEVENTEEN THOUSAND on that same old, deteriorating, unexpanded house.
Not only because of inflation but also because of the ever burgeoning local governments AND the housing-market bubble wherein housing values assumed exaggerated amounts as people were in a house-flipping frenzy..
At least, the latter is a big factor here in Northern Virginia.
In 2000, the tax on this property where I live was $200/month. Now, the tax is over $400/month, and the house and the lot itself are a in poorer condition today than in 2000.
Silverfiddle, why is it that you more or less want to start over but with the same economic system that grew into the monstrosity we have now?
Where does your confidence that we can avoid the mistakes arise?
The progressive vision of a utopia is nonexistent and never will. The calls for the rich to pay their "fair share" will lead to socialism. Then, when those who pay "fair share" go elsewhere or decide its not worth wasting their effort and time to be wealthy cause the government thieves take most of it anyways and they pack it in so there's no wealth (or not much wealth) to spread around we will be sucked into Communism. Well, we all know how well Communism has worked out in the world. Free-market capitalism is the answer because there is no equality or quality of life in either socialism or Communism. Progressives like to suck the life and fun out of everything. I prefer liberty and free-market capitalism where every person has a shot at success.
"No common sense? I would say it was "common sense" to stop allowing cigarette companies to glamorize smoking and pitching that deadly habit to kids. I understand most libertarians don't like it when government saves us from our dangerous stupidity, but I find it a good thing when 'we the people' decide that saving American lives is a good common sense goal."
Sorry, dear lady, but I strongly disagree. What you (plural-not-particular) really like is limiting -- and possibly someday eliminating -- Freedom of Choice.
The assumption is always that you (again plural not particular) know what's best for everyone, and in your mind that means your thoughts, your words your beliefs, your pet peeves, your cherished notions should be give the full force of LAW. You adore MANDATES.
This is, even with the best and most sincere of intentions, abhorrent to The Spirit of '76.
"They that can give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~ Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Remember, please, the far reaching disaster that occurred after that passage of Volstead Act.
The Law of Unintended Consequences is always at work.
No matter what "the Law" says, people will simply NOT be deprived of their vices and pet indulgences.
It is not -- nor should it EVER be -- the business of the State to "save people from themselves."
Try outlawing Oral Sex or Drinking more than one can of Coca Cola per day, and see how far you get.
Try outlawing Obesity, because of the threat of Universal Diabetes -- a current crise du jour. Go ahead. Round up fat people, and throw them into Concentration Camps called Government Health Spas. Starve them into submission. Separate families "for their own good." Take children away from mothers who feed them pizza and pasta and rice and beans and allow them to swill down gallons of manufactured soft drinks.
Try eliminating the production of Chips, Dips, Cheese, Crackers, Ice Cream, Cakes, Pies. Severely ration the amount of Butter each person may purchase.
By all means PUT the FAST FOOD Industry OUT of BUSINESS. Put Ray Krock and all his filthy, immoral profiteering ilk -- including those who INVEST in this vile Industry in JAIL. Throw away the KEY. CONFISCATE their WEALTH and spend it on enforcing government mandated dietary restrictions with Random Hit Squads empowered to "reassign" violators of Government Edicts to more closely supervised environments where they will be subjected to Behavior Modification techniques.
Black Markets will quickly emerge, New Criminal Enterprises will soon spring up, because "the People will NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT be told how they MUST enjoy themselves.
SilverFiddle's bicycle example was ANYTHING BUT "silly." It was dead on target, because once you cede power to the government of the magnitude you advocate, you are living under DESPOTISM.
As well all should know by now, Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts ABSOLUTELY.
You may lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Paralellung the same benevolent, common sense spirit you may TRY to, inform, educate -- even train -- members of the public in the way you believe they should go, but you cannot FORCE them to ACCEPT your superior wisdom.
There is NO compassion, NO benevolence, NOTHING DESIRABLE at ALL to be gained from having the STATE act in loco parentis treating all citizens like a bunch or permanent pre-schoolers.
Death really is preferable to slavery.
~ FreeThinke
Socialism has been Obama's dream and his followers. This isn't shocking and he won't stop until capitalism will be a thing of the past.
Move forward and in move Obama and his cronies out of office.
Not everyone is capable of making informed decisions/ choices freethinke. Best use law to outlaw certain "liberties", and allow juries to decide how to deal with "violators".
<a href="I mean that the father grows accustomed to descend to the level of his sons and to fear them, and the son is on a level with his father, he having no respect or reverence for either of his parents; and this is his freedom, and the metic is equal with the citizen and the citizen with the metic, and the stranger is quite as good as either.
Yes, he said, that is the way.
And these are not the only evils, I said—there are several lesser ones: In such a state of society the master fears and flatters his scholars, and the scholars despise their masters and tutors; young and old are all alike; and the young man is on a level with the old, and is ready to compete with him in word or deed; and old men condescend to the young and are full of pleasantry and gaiety; they are loth to be thought morose and authoritative, and therefore they adopt the manners of the young.
Quite true, he said.
The last extreme of popular liberty is when the slave bought with money, whether male or female, is just as free as his or her purchaser; nor must I forget to tell of the liberty and equality of the two sexes in relation to each other.
Why not, as Aeschylus says, utter the word which rises to our lips?
That is what I am doing, I replied; and I must add that no one who does not know would believe, how much greater is the liberty which the animals who are under the dominion of man have in a democracy than in any other State: for truly, the she-dogs, as the proverb says, are as good as their she-mistresses, and the horses and asses have a way of marching along with all the rights and dignities of freemen; and they will run at any body who comes in their way if he does not leave the road clear for them: and all things are just ready to burst with liberty.
When I take a country walk, he said, I often experience what you describe. You and I have dreamed the same thing.
And above all, I said, and as the result of all, see how sensitive the citizens become; they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority, and at length, as you know, they cease to care even for the laws, written or unwritten; they will have no one over them.
Yes, he said, I know it too well.
Such, my friend, I said, is the fair and glorious beginning out of which springs tyranny.
Glorious indeed, he said. But what is the next step?
The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy—the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction; and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government.
True.
The excess of liberty, whether in States or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.
Yes, the natural order.
And so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty?</i>
Plato "Republic"
Wow, as the election grows nearer should we expect even more loony crap like this from you? Shameless liar.
Will someone please SWAT this fuckin' fruit fly?
November is just around the corner and our long national nightmare is about to end. And the Progressive's is just beginning. Payback is sweet!
People are waking up.
FreeThinke: No, I won't swat Liberalmann. Think of him as a cartoon inserted between serious commentary in order to break things up and provide some laughs.
@ Ducky: Where does your confidence that we can avoid the mistakes arise?
Your naivete is touching...
Mankind cannot avoid mistakes. We can only learn from them and move on.
A two year old learns not to touch a hot stove. Government constructs a multi-billion dollar never-ending program involving dry ice and asbestos gloves to ensure everybody has the same opportunity to touch hot stoves and not get burned.
People learn from mistakes and move one. Government serially enables them in perpetuity, while charging us all more and more for the service.
JMJ: "Silver still argues we shouldn't have allowed the restructuring of GM.
How many companies reorganizing under Chapter 11 are propped up by the taxpayers to the tune of 50 billion dollars? Bankruptcies are supposed to be under the jurisdiction of the courts, not the Treasury Department. The entire thing was 'sub rosa', and illegal.
http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-auto-bailout-and-the-rule-of-law
Here's a good picture. After the 08 election.
Since Ducky accused SF of dodging Shaw, I'll take her statements straight on:
"It was government that forced states to stop denying African-Americans their civil rights"
It was also that same government that infected African-Americans with Syphilis.... from 1932 until 1972 in the Tuskegee Experiment
"the Tuskegee syphilis study used
disadvantaged, rural black men to study the untreated course of a disease that is by no means confined to that population. These subjects were deprived of demonstrably effective treatment in order not to interrupt the
project, long after such treatment
became generally available."
I would categorize that as "evil".
http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/archive/documents/19790418.pdf
The Marshal Plan followed and was the remedy for the disastrous Morgenthau Plan which was in effect up until 1947.
US actions were contrary to both the Hague Convention Section IV, and the Geneva Convention Article 75.
Under the Morgentau Plan, in 1947 an estimated 4,000,000 Germans were still being used as slave labor.
"I'm also opposed to sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands" George S Patton (diary).
In 1946 roughly 1/5 of all British agricultural work was being performed by German POWs.
- Life in Britain for German POWs, BBC.
"We have done or are doing some of the very things we are prosecuting the Germans for."
"We are prosecuting plunder and our Allie are practicing it"
Robert H Jackson, Chief US Prosecuter in the Nuremberg trials.
When the Vatican attempted to transmit food supplies for Chile to German infants, the US State Department forbade it.
"...among the crimes with which this (Nazi) leadership has been charged (at Nuremberg) is the crime of systematic and mass starvation of racial or political minorities or opponents.... Yet to our utter horror, we discover that our own policies have merely spread those same conditions"
Senator William Langer 1946
The Handbook for Military Government in Germany advocated a quick restoration of normal life for the German people and the reconstruction of Germany.
This was overruled by Roosevelt "That unfortunately is not based on fact. The German people must have it driven home to them that the whole nation has been engaged in a lawless conspiracy"
The new directive draftes was JCS 1067: "take no steps looking toward the economic rehabilitation of Germany"
Asked if he wanted German people to starve, Roosevelt replied "why not?"
"it was also ordered that starvation, disease and civil unrest were to be kept below such levels where they would pose a danger to the troops of occupation"
Allied Soldiers: 4000 Calories/Day
German Civilians: 1000
Compassion? I think not, it was simple pragmatism. General Lucius Clay "There is no choice between being a communist on 1500 calories a day and a believer in democracy on 1000"
Anti-smoking: No one will advocate children smoking, and the law is that you must be 18 to purchase. You will undoubtedly disagree, but it is not governments role to parent your children.
The rates of teen smoking have fluctuated wildly, apparently with no correlation to Tobacco adds pro or anti.
The rate of teens smoking today is 20% similar to in 1968 after a peak of 40% in 1976. The question is why are teens today without ads smoking at the same rate as teens in 1968 with ads?
The smoking graph for 12th grade white and hispanics looks like a smile, yet for some unknown reason the smoking rate for black 12th graders has declined.
None of the data on advertising bans, and anti-smoking ads has no correlation with the actual number of teenagers smoking.
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/NNBCPH.pdf
http://www.ur.umich.edu/0506/Dec12_05/24.shtml
www.smoking-facts.net/Teen-Smoking-Facts.html
http://www.cancernetwork.com/lung-cancer/content/article/10165/81348
Cheers!
The Malvinas? I thought it was the Maldives. At least that's what our president said, must be true.
GIVE THE MALDIVES TO ARGENTINA DAMMIT!
Well well, Fintann figures out that the world isn't perfect.
However, it's silly to consider the Tuskegee experiment to be equivalent to civil rights actions.
Pure pedantic stinky cheese.
I simply point out the Malvinas/Maldives misspeak since you liberals were all so generous with George II. Truth is, we all mispeak on occasion, it isn't a sign of stupidity or the lack of an education.
As far as pedantic, I think not.
What is your view? That Tuskegee was trivial?
Shaw attempts to paint government as all unicorns and roses, I simply point out that it often has an ugly side.
I chose Tuskegee as a counterpoint showing that the same government that was enforcing civil rights was violating them. You think that was all that was wrong that was going on?
Should I have pointed out the fact that the majority of discriminatory laws were passed by southern democrats attempting to preserve their white status quo?
You think I ran out of material? I simply and cognitively addressed the 3 points made.
Just like a liberal to dismiss Tuskegee out of hand. Who cares if a few black farmers died of syphilis if it served the common good. Of course, if you could somehow manage to pin it solely on Republicans you'd be creaming your pants.
Cheers!
Anti-smoking: You may be surprised by the opinion of Richard Doll, one of the epidemiologists who first published the link between smoking and lung cancer (if you don't count the Nazi scientists who got there first). I remember him saying in an interview that as a public health policy maker, in general it's best to listen to what the tobacco companies say, and do the exact opposite. The companies are all adamant that that smoking is an adult pastime unsuitable for children, which of course only makes it more appealing to children. Reverse psychology would suggest that to reduce teenage take-up, you should present tobacco as a childish pastime.
I couldn't find that exact quote, but here's one I could find:
~~~
If you have children who have started smoking, don´t panic because they probably won´t be smoking as an adult, and 10 years really doesn´t do very much harm. But it does build up the longer you smoke. Smoking for 30 years has more than twice the effect of 15 years. It´s about 16 times the harmful effect.
~~~
I don't think any public health announcement has ever attempted that level of nuance. What would happen if they did?
It is not about smoking or not smoking, drinking or not drinking, transfats or no transfats, using salt or not using salt, kid's meal toys or no kid's meal toys.
It is about whether or not government should have any say in the matter at all.
Cheers!
"It is not about smoking or not smoking, drinking or not drinking, transfats or no transfats, using salt or not using salt, kid's meal toys or no kid's meal toys" --
or whether homosexuals should be permitted to marry, or women should be permitted to have abortions, or terminal invalids enduring horrendous suffering should have the right to assisted suicide, or whether you should be permitted to erect a storage shed in your backyard or add a screened porch to the back end of your house, or whether you should run your air-conditioner at 72º, or wash your car more than once a month, or eat French fries, and swill down as much Coca Cola as you want, etc., etc., etc. --
"It is about whether or not government should have any say in the matter at all."
AMEN, Brother Finn! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
~ FreeThinke
I said that it wasn't equivalent, not that it was irrelevant.
Go to your room, the one marked Pedantic.
Ducky:
I can't tell if you think I'm ostentatious or you consider Tuskegee trivial.
I've reviewed my comments and am quite sure I never said the two events were equivalent. The closest thing I said that could be misconstrued as equivalency was that the same government that championed civil rights violated them.
And if you think Tuskegee was the only violation or contradiction you are extremely naive.
You may now go to the room marked specious, I believe you are quite familiar with it.
Hack is right Most people don't know about George W. Bush's failures:
Darrell Issa, the richest man in Congress, has been fighting furiously to pin the blame for the Republican Recession onto President Obama. But, what Issa has uncovered is all the colossal screw-ups in DC rest in the bushwhacking hands of George Bush. Heh heh heh heh.
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." ~ George W. Bush, May 24, 2005.
Solyndra! Solyndra! Gunwalking! Gunwalking!
Solyndra and the ATF Gunwalking scheme Fast and Furious were begun under the auspices of the George Bush Regime. And as Republicans always do they bungled both these tasks and then hid the information from the incoming Obama Presidency.
The Solyndra loan guarantee was a multi-year process that the Bush Administration launched in 2007. In January 2009, Bush tried to strong-arm the Department of Energy into pushing the Solyndra loan before a credit review board, to show how much Bush loved Clean Energy. Read here for a Timeline of Solyndra Loan.
Under George W. Bush, the process of Mexican "Gun Walking" was known as Operation: Wide Receiver. It started in 2006 under Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and ran until the end of 2007 culimating in Zero Arrests.
Now, you never heard about these Bush Era Failures because in 2006 and 2007 Bush was ramping up the Iraq War and conservatives were using the War to attack Liberals. It's unbelievable the amount of damage the Republicans can do to the Nation in pursuit of servicing their Plutocratic Overlords. They have been eating the seed corn and any other number of cliched colloquiasms about short-sightedness you can think of!
Gene: Go argue with someone who is defending Bush. I'm not.
If you're trying to exonerate Obama the miserable failure, go ahead, and we'll laugh in your face.
Just pointing out that as with the Republican Recession and the Wars (although Republican Mitch Daniels spit in the faces of Service Members in afghanistan by declaring we are in "peacetime") Obama inherited a shit storm.
Has he been perfect in cleaning up the messes left by the last 30 years of piss down your back and tell you it's raining Reaganomics? Nope. Has he done a good job, nonetheless? Yep...
Grung e -
I guess you haven't heard of the Community Reinvestment Act under Carter expanded under Clinton, or GSA's such as Fannie and Freddie? Did you know about the government bailing out the GSA's because they couldn't compete in the in the private sector. They were utter failures but our government kept on bailing them out - Democrats and/or progressives.
Did you hear about Bill Clinton strong arming the banks (bank managers and their families) into handing out those risky loans which ultimately caused the collapse of the housing market?
That was NOT Reaganomics. The recession was not caused by the free-market. The financial crisis was caused by the government - government intervention.
Please do try and live in some semblance of reality and stop acting like a brain dead progressive walking around like a zombie believing in the misinformation that the Left spews.
Teresa: I guess Gene also missed out on the greatest economic expansion in out nation's history, started by Reagan and continued by Clinton and Bush.
Reaganomics didn't crash the economy, bad loans enforced by the government did.
Here's a thought, maybe after he gets voted out, obama will move to south America. One can dream.
I doubt it will happen, parasites never leave willing, besides his amigo might not be so welcoming of a failed has been.
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