At least in Libya is looks like they are doing violence for the right reasons, where angry mobs chased an Islamist group out of Benghazi.
Anyway, I'm tired of hearing about how inflamed the Muslim street is. Their hate meter is already pegged, so, ho hum...
Oh? You Muslim extremists are all mad and explody again? Well, here's a message for ya...
Hey, Angry Muslims (not all Muslims, just the angry hatey ones), you think you hate us? You think your hate is the burniest of burning hatey hate?
Wrong. We hate you worse. Only ours is not a murderous hate. It is a hate that despises. The way one despises mosquitoes and termites, or the stench from the sewage treatment plant when the wind blows the wrong way.
You're a pain in the ass, and you need to get over yourselves.
The US Government does not fund anti-Islamic art...
...It only funds anti-Christian projects
You get angry when a private citizen draws a picture of Muhammad? That’s nuthin! My government paid an artist to dunk an image of my God in a jar of urine. It also paid an artist to sculpt an image of my Lord's mother in the medium of elephant dung and pornographic pictures.
I didn't throw firebombs at the National Endowment for the Arts building in DC, I didn’t scream murderous hatred like a flaming pack of hemorrhoids, and I didn't storm the art museum where they were displayed and I didn't call for the decapitation of the "artists." Neither did any other Christians so far as I know, although one Christian did deface the elephant dung thing, and he didn’t hurt anyone doing it.
You stupid Muslims (not the smart ones) are snuffing the light of liberty. If you want to sit in tyrannical darkness in your own beshitted lands, have at it, but we hate you because you've brought your darkness, religious chauvinism, murderous hatred, petty bigotries and passive-aggressive victimology agitprop to Western Christendom.
Unlike you though, we don't hate everybody. We have no problem with people, including followers of Muhammad, who come here and respect our constitution and the rights of others. Muslims have made great contributions to this nation in all fields of endeavor, and I am proud that they and their families can live the American dream here unmolested, and attend their houses of worship without fear. Shia are safer here than in most of the Islamic world.
In this land, unlike where you came from, you are free to worship how you want and believe what you want. Inherent in that is the requirement to accept like an adult that others will think, act, worship and believe differently than you. Some will even lampoon your religious beliefs. If you don't like it, go back home and continue destroying the society you came from.
For an excellent defense of offensive speech, see How Muslim Extremists Can Learn from Larry Flynt
H/T to Constitutional Conservative for the inspiration
61 comments:
'We hate you worse"
Another post of hate. You write hate everyday. You can't help it. Hate is your character.
Hate consunes. Let them consume themselves!
Obammy said that these are "only bumps in the road". So why are we all so upset?
Don't worry, Steve. Comparatively speaking, the hate Silver has in his character (according to you) is nothing. The hatiest burning hatey hate that the Muslims have for all things infidel makes the 'hate' within Silver (again, according to you) seem like cuddly, warm fuzzy teddy bear love.
It's all a matter of perspective, you see.
You are damn right i am angry! and I am just about fed up with the actions of this president. Obama cannot even get along with the Republicans or anybody else who disagrees with him about something - yet he imagines he is going to become a pal of foreign enemies of the U.S. This is a characteristic of Leftism that never changes. Leftists fear and loathe domestic political critics, fellow Americans, infinitely more than they do foreign enemies of America, with whom they are always trying to negotiate and work something out. They are willing to jeopardize national security and honor to appease and placate foreign enemies - but toward Americans who merely differ with them on points of politics they are ruthless and intransigent. They often seem to hate America and Americans as much if not more than the foreign enemies they always try to befriend. And when will this president and the Vice president stop spiking the ba;; over the event that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden and give the credit where it is due, to the US. Navy Seals. OK, so I will grant you that Obama did one thing right in the FOUR years of his reign. . Well, truthfully only because the MSM would never have allowed a Republican to do so. He shot rather than captured OBL. Of course the SEALS did the work. He didn't build that. Did he? And perhaps being that you are so well informed when it come to making excuses for Obama, maybe you can or ‘will” tell us why Obama has so much time for Barbara Walters, Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg but No time for the Israeli Prime Minister? I know that Whoop is a lot of fun and Bibi Netanyahu isn’t. But what the hell!
Obama has been campaign since he first became a senator and he has not stopped yet, even though the whole world is on fire, Obama is still fiddling. When will the United States wake up and get rid of this narcissist!!
And your perspective is:
The only good Muslim, is a dead Muslim.
Taken right out of the racist past of America.
You learned the wrong lesson, but then you are a character of hate.
Why are you so intolerant, Stevie? Why do you spew your hatred of us here, every day?
Hate, hate, hate... thy name is Stevie.
Let me explain the Serrano funding once again. It's pointless since no matter how often you explain the truth to the fringe right they are congenitally unable to accept anything but their own biasesbut here goes.
1. The Winston-Salem Arts Council (very well respected) ran a competition.
2. The prize was a cash award and a one person show. The National Endowment for the Arts was one of several agencies and companies that contributed a small sum to the prize, $1500.
3. Serrano was the winner. However, Piss Christ WAS NOT HIS ENTRY.
4. He may or may not have included the work in his subsequent one man show. However, at no point in this process was Piss Christ directly awarded.
5. The crucifix IS NOT inverted as Silverfiddle states leading the diligent reader to wonder if he's ever seen the photo.
He should also understand that the NEA usually funds through regional councils at the state and local level.
Now, what did the representatives of Silverfiddles precious fringe right do? They immediately screamed that the National Endowment for the Arts be defunded. I'm sure you remember human filth piles like Jesse Helms(R- Ignorant Cracker) and Dick Armey(R- Southern Bigot) leading the charge.
We could also talk about the censorship of The Last Temptation of Christ as an example of how it is the left not the fringe right trogs who protect speech in America.
"My government paid an artist to dunk an image of my God, upside down, in a jar of urine. It also paid an artist to sculpt an image of my Lord's mother in the medium of elephant dung and pornographic pictures."
Do people really think that the god whom they believe created multiverses, billions of galaxies, stars, and planets, and every living creature on this planet would concern itself and be offended by some guy's little sculpture dipped in urine or some artist who expressed his art with cow dung?
To believe that that would be offensive to an entitiy that was capable of the creation of all that our human minds can conceive of is to believe in a very petulant and small, small god.
It seems that the Christians and the Muslims have a lot in common when they believe that an entity as powerful and unimaginably vast as a multiverse-creating god could concern itself with scribblings, cartoons, and paintings by an insignificant part of its vast creation.
Humans tend to make their gods as small and fractious as they are themselves.
OK Ducky, I accept your information on its face. Perhaps the government only marginally funded it. My point still stands.
Even if not one government dime went to that offensive work, the perception was there in the minds of faithful Christians, yet we did not violence.
I have seen it, and the upside-down thing was an error, since corrected.
Now, tell us how America's righwing theocracy banned The Last Temptation of Christ. Inquiring minds want to know.
Tell us again how many movie theaters were burned down and bombed?
How many years has Marty Scorsese been hiding out from angry murderous Christians after Falwell issued that fatwa?
Shaw: Your argument is valid viz Islam, but it is a strawman when used against Christians.
Christians are personally offended by stuff like that, but of course we know it in no way diminishes God. Muslims are the ones that don't understand what you are saying.
So go to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and explain it to them, just be sure to wear a kevlar burka. They don't tolerate blasphemy like we do.
It also paid an artist to sculpt an image of my Lord's mother in the medium of elephant dung and pornographic pictures.
--------
Once again I will state that the NEA rarely directly commissions a work.
In this case the artist is British and worked in Britain.
The objection came from one of the fringe right's favorite, Rudi Giuliani, the presidential candidate who kept the right wing diaper pissers safe from squeegee men.
What did he object to? The work in question was included in a large exhibition in a public building. As a result he felt it was publicly funded.
Keep going Silverfiddle. You are writing on a topic and demonstrating your COMPLETE lack of understanding.
You keep trying, Ducky. Excellent name, because you're ducking the issue at hand.
What did he object to? The work in question was included in a large exhibition in a public building. As a result he felt it was publicly funded.
The very same logic the American left uses to shut down Christian religious expression in government-funded buildings and enterprises, so eat it.
Now, tell us again how Falwell's fatwa has Scorsese on the run like Salman Rushdie.
All will be right with the world today. Obama is speaking at the UN general assembly, not meeting with anyone because he and the big women have to go on the View.
What a rock star
I'm not trying to be as confrontational as you may think, Silver. It's clear you misunderstand some of your premises and you can accept or reject the correction as you see fit.
However, we get back to some basic issues.
1. You are correct that Arab nations need to change their cultural values in order to gain acceptance from the West. We agree on that point.
You are incorrect if you maintain that the U.S. always accepts those values you champion such as free speech.
2. By including the absolutely unnecessary anti- government screed you put the article on a more confrontational footing which you may or may not desire.
My take is that your target is both fundamentalist Arabs and the left.
Why not just accept that in the matter of speech the left is more of an ally than a foe?
HEAR! HEAR!
I just love it when the farty far far left exposes itself by ardently defending the public exhibition of such inanely obscene "expressions" as PISS CHRIST and the SHIT MADONNA.
What's next?
I can hardly wait to see the "art film" sure to come
called MARY, the VIRGIN, LOSES HER CHERRY to an ASS.
God! You perverts make me sick! You really do.
~ FreeThinke
Ducky, the question that remains unanswered is why government money should be going to artists at all? Why is the government holding contest giveaways on our dime?
Why cant an artists work stand or fall on the market value of that work alone? Why does it need to be subsidized?
Seen the National Endowment for Landscapers lately? The National Endowment for Auto Detailers?
It is just more government meddling in the marketplace. If I want to support art, I'll buy some. I don't need some petty buffoon in DC deciding where my money needs to go.
Art for arts sake is all well and good, but if you want to delve into extreme experimental art, fund it yourself by churning out a few dozen Kincade-like cottage paintings that will sell in the general market or find a specialty buyer that is interested to commission. You are certainly not entitled to delve into the realm of dung on our dime.
Seriously, I doubt Serrano sunk his life savings into that work? It's not like he sculpted Mt Rushmore. Hell at least half the materials were free. Does he deserve compensation for his bizarre thinking process? What did that cost him? Probably came up with the entire idea while masturbating in a public men's room.
Shaw I believe it was spending the taxpayers money to fund some wacko dipping a sculpture in urine not the act. As long as it is spending taxpayers money on some far left idea you are all for it. Trying to get the government to handle taxpayer money wisely is objectionable to you.
Her's the challenge Freethinker.
You name two works (one isn't even American). Name a few more (Hint: Mapplethorpe) or else admit you're just blowing smoke out your ass. Give me a little more than the classic fringe right litany.
Oh, try Godard's Hail Mary. I say it's a serious work with considerable merit but I'm sure you feel your opinion takes precedence.
Can it wth the straw men, Finntann. That's a discussion for another time.
Right now the topic is these fringe right parrots who don't understand what they are discussing and are blowing smoke out of their collective ass. They don't have the foggiest idea what the NEA funds although that wouldn't effect your argument.
Actually Ducky, NEA funding does go to the argument. We shouldn't be spending taxpayer money on art.
And this isn't an anti-government screed.
skudrunner, try sticking to reality.
I neither said nor implied any of what you wrote in your comment.
If you're so desperate to argue, try doing it with someone who actually wrote what you imagined I wrote; and if you need strawmen to play with, I suggest you visit a corn field.
"Do people really think that the god whom they believe created multiverses, billions of galaxies, stars, and planets, and every living creature on this planet would concern itself and be offended by some guy's little sculpture dipped in urine or some artist who expressed his art with cow dung?"
From you own hand. You argue that it is being insulted, The point is who pays. You favor other peoples money and I say not mine.
skudrunner, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding what I wrote.
Silverfiddle understood my point, which has absolutely nothing to do with payers and payees.
Leave it at that, and go back and play in the corn fields with your strawmen.
Anti Art
Anti Science
Anti Muslim
Anti Civil Rights
Anti the President of the United States
Anti legal voters
Anti poor people
Anti killing our enemies
The list of your hate is endless
Do you hate more things, lets hear them.
Shaw,
Never thought you were clinging to your guns and bible. Good for you and BTW, you can do better, at insulting that is, that one was a little weak.
How about a Shit-face on a flag
Silver, the money was a prize for a competition. A prize that wasn't even awarded for the particular work of art you're talking about.
The NEA simply awarded a prize to the artist who just so happened to originate Piss Christ.
As Ducky said, the artist was in no way commissioned to make Piss Christ. The money did not go to him for Piss Christ, it went to him for whatever his submission was for his contest.
So the prize money should go to only artists with whom Christians are okay?
Oh, tax payer money shouldn't be used to promote the arts? Jesus, it's no wonder American art and culture sucks so horribly. We're all too worried about making sure that our GDP stays at 14 trillion--well above whoever comes in second--to care about stupid things like art and music.
American culture is much like the Romans. We're all about government and commerce, and we even innovate on those things from time to time, but when it comes to the finer side of culture, we largely borrow from everyone else.
Because in America, those who produce art are marginalized by a society that thinks the only thing that is important is making more money.
Sigh.
So the prize money should go to only artists with whom Christians are okay?
No. But you answered your own question. Government should not be handing out money for art.
I have been to places like Ecuador where there is zero government dollars for art, and Quito has a very vibrant artistic community.
But you missed the point of the article.
No President of the United States should kow-tow to the Jews! They have done nothing over the past years but continue to encroach on the Palestinian's land!
EZ
Looks like you get your wish because the incompetent incumbent has shown his disregard for Israel. He has time for Letterman and the View but can't squeeze in some foreign leaders.
@EzzZee,
Holocaust denier! Anti-Semite!
Now get with the program, EzzZee!
The US Government does not fund anti-Islamic art...
...It only funds anti-Christian projects
---------
We missed that point?
You go out of your way to discuss arts fund, demonstrate you don't understand how it functions in the U.S. and then say we missed the point.
Just for kicks you should go online and research what projects are funded.
It would also help if you clarified your opposition. Is it you antipathy to government funding of anything but the military or do you feel that the private market alone should be the engine of artistic development?
I think Jack makes a very cogent point of your preference being ancient Rome which, left to the free market, developed very little. It's a complex topic which deserves more than the dismissive "government should never ..."
Ducky:
You've already established yourself as a smart, thinking person, so acting dumb just isn't credible.
You and Jack are ignoring the main point, which is Christians when offended don't burn, bomb and murder like Muslims do.
The whole "Muslim street" anger is old, and they need to grow up and get over themselves.
You know, we've killed a massive number of Muslims across the globe and you have the nerve to state that we are righteous because we do it long range and with drones?
Four Americans die in Libya and it is a massive tragedy. Eight women and children in Pakistan are targeted in error and killed and it's just another bunch of ragheads.
By a vowel.
Folks, this thread is an great example of what liberals do when they can't refute an argument.
They employ the "Hey! Look over there!" diversionary tactic, picking on a non-material statement that has no bearing on the thesis and that does not form a part of the chain of logic.
So now Ducky, you were going to explain how Christian jihad endangered free speech upon the release of The Last Temptation...
Stick to the topic, Ducky.
Better yet, pour yourself a hot toddy and crawl into bed, old man. Your performance here today was especially shabby and embarrassing.
Strawmen? As if in a discussion related to the NEA, the root question of whether or not the government should have handed out 4 billion dollars to artists of questionable talent isn't relevant.
The core element of this discussion is this: Not only do we support 'art' that the majority of our citizens would find offensive... none of them riot and kill over it.
Whereas a privately funded 'artistic' endeavor results in riots across the Muslim world and four dead American state department employees.
So... kindly enlighten us with your wisdom:
What should we do about a torched embassy and dead ambassador?
Ignore it?
Hand out more moolah?
Break of diplomatic relations?
Send in special forces to hunt down those responsible?
Send them a gold framed version of piss christ?
You are ready to shoot down anyone's proposed solutions... what about yours? Come on answer man.
Steve... shut your pie-hole until you have something of relevance to actually contribute. You're an ass.
I find it ironic that if Muslims go around blowing things up ,killing people because they are "offended",killing women or slicing off parts of their bodies for some ginned up reasoning,crashing planes into buildings,that when people speak out against it and rightfully so,people on the left call them anti-Muslim and haters,but when group of peaceful Tea Party people hold up signs because they don't agree with radical government spending and policies,those same people on the left call them hate mongers and racists and even the media says it and makes up the name Tea Bagger like Anderson Cooper started.
Maybe someone should tell Steve which party was against the Civil Rights movement and if you ask me probably still are even though they aren't quite aware of it.
In the “For What it’s Worth” Department, I’d like to say that Steve is right: there is too much hate in the world. Now Steve, possessing the courage of his conviction, should fly to the Middle East, find someone from al-Qaeda, embrace that person, and give him or her a nice big kiss. Then we’ll see how love vs. hate works in the real world. Most importantly, we won’t have to deal with Steve until he’s eventually reincarnated as a donkey turd.
Defining your character is relevant bitch
It shows just how much hate you guys have
the only one who seems to have hate here is you.
"The only good Muslim, is a dead Muslim.
Taken right out of the racist past of America."
Steve, Muslim is not a race. Put the race card back in your deck.
Steve is 2 race cards short of a full deck
Better yet, pour yourself a hot toddy and crawl into bed, old man. Your performance here today was especially shabby and embarrassing.
-------
I'm a night person. I'll retire around 2:00.
You got roughed up pretty good today.
"You got roughed up pretty good today."
If it makes you feel better to fantasize, indulge yourself.
You pulled your usual canardo routine, completely detracting from the point of the post, so I guess I can congratulate you for that.
Leftist ideology positively depends upon diversionary tactics and reality avoidance.
So, weren't you going to tell us about the time Jerry Falwell's jihadis burned down movie theaters and chased Martin Scorcese into hiding over The Last Temptation?
No, wait, that was Muslims, killing people over Satanic Verses, and Salmon Rushdie is still in hiding.
But anyway, you brought it up earlier, so the stage is yours...
@Finntann - As if in a discussion related to the NEA, the root question of whether or not the government should have handed out 4 billion dollars to artists of questionable talent isn't relevant.
-------
Let's go real slow.
First I will reiterate that the NEA doesn't typically fund artists directly.
It can ultimately fund anything from a neighborhood theater company to a poetry translator.
This idea you have of it directly funding artists of questionable talent (i.e. artists you are to lazy to attempt to understand) is inaccurate.
I got into this with z a while back about an exhibition of a collection of Baroque Dutch painting (probably the finest in existence) at the Peabody Essex museum in Salem. Partially funded by the NEA.
I accompanied an art class from the local high school where volunteer. Most of the kids loved it and their essays covered everything from aspects of Dutch trade in still life to mortality in the vanitas.
But that might not appear on standardize tests so I guess it was worthless.
Anyway, as far as arts funding is concerned, you don't know your ass from your elbow.
To further elucidate leftists tactics, I'll point out your use of the qualifier, "directly"
First I will reiterate that the NEA doesn't typically fund artists directly.
They shouldn't be funding them at all, but that is a side show having nothing to do with this post.
And I do know enough about art to know that the baroque period precedes NEA, so it didn't fund any of the Dutch Masters (see? I also know that Dutch Masters refers to more than just cigars!)
As far as following an argument goes, you suck, but your diversionary tactics are well-honed.
Now, tell us about those Christian jihadis you mentioned earlier.
It funded the exhibition you dolt.
Do you have any idea what it costs to transport and insure that kind of collection?
Pitch till you win.
You obviously are engaged in selective reading, since I've said various times that the federal government should not be funding any of it, you dolt.
Ever heard of private money, dolt?
Ever went to an Opera that was funded by ticket sales, dolt?
Now, tell us about the Christian jihadis, dolt.
EREISSARBDRATSABHOHCTIBOHTRAFHOTITHOTNUCHOWERCSHOKCUFHOKCUSHOSSIPHOTIHSHOTSIRHCHO
Ducky, you're not smarter than everyone else like you think you are. I have three artists in my family, two of whom teach at the university level, one that is published, and my ex was a graphic artist. I am fully aware of how the NEA operates its grants, partnerships, and awards.
I have no objection to the art, just to the government funding of it. Art isn't going to go away without the 150 million or so of government funding to the NEA.
The $15,000 SECCA award that Serrano received for Piss Christ, that was partially subsidized by the NEA eventually sold for $277,000 at Christies. This guy needs government subsidies?
SECCA is already funded 75% by private donations, it shouldn't be that hard to convert it to 100% private. Admission is free... well, hey... charge a buck.
That said, you continue to dance around the question SF posed regarding the difference in reception for works such as these between the Muslim and Western worlds.
Piss Christ elicited political protest here in the states. Although it was vandalized while on display in Australia and in France, no one died, no one burned down SECCA or any of the other galleries it was displayed at.
What would the reaction be to a "Piss Mohammed"? Quite different I would expect.
Cheers!
Another reason to be furious with Islamomaniacs:
An unknown group called the "cyber fighters of Izz ad-din Al qassam" is claiming responsibility. Over the past week [for cyber attacks targeting Wells Fargo Bank, Bank of America, etc.), it has been posting details on Pastebin about its attacks on U.S. banks, saying that it's retaliating for the release of the controversial video posted to YouTube that mocks the Prophet Mohammad. The film has sparked furor and demonstrations across the Middle East and led to the death of the U.S. ambassador in Libya and three others.
"In the previous announcements we stated that we will not tolerate insulting exalted character of the prophet of mercy and kindness," Izz ad-din Al qassam wrote in a new Pastebin post today. "Due to the insult, we planned and accomplished a series of cyber operations against the insulting country's credit and financial centers."
Izz ad-din Al qassam wrote that the attacks will continue until the video is removed from "the Internet." The group said it will attack different banks for eight hours a day, every day. In a schedule of its attacks, the group wrote that on September 25 it will strike Wells Fargo, on September 26 it will go after U.S. Bank, and on September 27 it will take down PNC Bank.
Yep, the beat goes on.
There is no way that Piss Mohammed, if such a thing is ever made, will go on display in a prominent museum.
And we all know why.
FEAR OF REPRISAL!
Such a thing has been made (google will show you), but to be honest it would be quite irresponsible to display it prominently. How could a gallery owner put himself and his staff at risk?
So I guess the fanatic Islamic reaction "works" in some sense, except that what we really think of it is far more obscene than any artwork could convey.
For what it's worth (not much, visual arts aren't my thing), IMO piss christ is neither obscene nor anti-christian. It is interesting to emphasise Jesus' simultaneous divinity and humanity; since Mohammed is a mere Prophet, that point about divinity isn't there to be made.
Some of us are angry and tired of the primitives and their various grievances. Not enough though.
For Muslims it's not only acceptable to live in hate and anger to cause harm to others and property but it is commendable. From what I heard on a talk show this afternoon, if a Muslim does not act in anger it is a form of cowardice.
However, in the Christian perspective, we can get angry, it's only natural, but we are not to sin when we do.
Only a fool or somewhat with uncontrollable hate destroys property, kills people all in the name of the god.
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