The entire Class Warfare agenda collapses under serious scrutiny
President Obama's demagoguery surrounding wealth, taxes and everybody paying their "fair share" (what the hell ever that is) has passed its freshness date, but still it sits there in the public square, rotting like a sack of bloody fish heads in the harsh noonday sun.
Progressive hopium smokers say things like this...
"We have very little progressivity in our tax code, we have among the world's worst wealth disparity, and when compared to income and wealth, the wealthy pay much less in taxes than do the rest of us." (Jersey McJones)This is the propaganda that Obama's willfully-ignorant toadies will regurgitate in response to a perfectly good blog post written by blogger buddy Jack Camwell.
The Rich already pay more than the rest of us
The effective tax rate of the median income taxpayer, (due to exemptions, deductions, etc) is 7.4 %, according to the New York Times, and not 15% or 25% as some have alleged.
Romney, a typical rich man who, like Warren Buffett, makes most of his money off of investments, had an effective rate of 13.9% in 2010. Rich men Obama and Gingrich paid 26.8% and 32.2% respectively. So rich people are paying at least twice the rate as the median income taxpayer, with some paying four times that.
Make the rich pay more? Even taxing the 1% at 100%, essentially confiscating their entire paycheck every two weeks would yield only another $900 billion or so, a band-aid to Obama's gushing deficits. Think about that for a moment. Even complete confiscation would not solve our government's deficit problems.
Earned Income and Capital Gains are taxed at different rates
It is also useful to distinguish between earned income and capital gains. They are taxed at different rates. So the Warren Buffett's secretary argument is one of apples and oranges. And btw, she's not a school secretary earning $30,000 per year; she reportedly makes over $300K/year, which puts some of her income all the way up in the 33% bracket. So yeah, Warren pays a lower effective tax rate, but he gets his money from captial gains, not salary. Maybe she should ask to be paid in Berkshire Hathaway shares...
Wealth distribution" rhetoric betrays an anti-liberty, socialist mindset
Who distributes it? Based upon what criteria? Where does the wealth come from? Who owns it? Do they really believe Uncle Obama has a stash? These unabashed socialists are talking about confiscating other people's money and redistributing it as they see fit, plain and simple.
Who distributes it? Based upon what criteria? Where does the wealth come from? Who owns it? Do they really believe Uncle Obama has a stash? These unabashed socialists are talking about confiscating other people's money and redistributing it as they see fit, plain and simple.
The capitalist form of redistribution is going to work for a rich man in exchange for some of his money.
The US tax code is the most progressive among developed nations:
Jersey's quote at the top of this article is a beautiful slice of sly socialist propaganda:
Here are the bare facts, and they are nowhere near what Jersey would have you believe: The Top 5% of income earners pay over 50% of all taxes, while the bottom 50% pay just 2.25% Source: National Taxpayer's Union
The US tax code is the most progressive among developed nations:
But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population."
[...] the U.S. tax system is far more progressive—meaning pro-poor—than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden. (The Tax Foundation)
Socialist Propaganda
"...and when compared to income and wealth, the wealthy pay much less in taxes than do the rest of us."See how Jersey sneaked in "and wealth?" We do not tax wealth in this country! We tax income! And did you notice the tautology? The wealthy are wealthier than the rest of us because they have more wealth...
Here are the bare facts, and they are nowhere near what Jersey would have you believe: The Top 5% of income earners pay over 50% of all taxes, while the bottom 50% pay just 2.25% Source: National Taxpayer's Union
Always be sure to carefully parse progressive propaganda. They can't stick to the simple numbers, but must invent categories and sly formulations to make their propaganda points.
So, in summary, the poverty pimps and the class warfare hustlers on the left are full of crap
Yes, social issues and crony crapitalism contribute to wealth disparity, but so does lazy people sitting on their asses all day while entrepreneurs are out finding ways to make money by serving their fellow man. An efficient market does not distribute rewards equally; it distributes them by merit.
The rich pay the overwhelming preponderance of taxes in this country, and almost 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax whatsoever. Some even get Earned Income Tax Credit, where the government pays them! Thank President Gerald Ford (a republican) for enacting it, and President Ronald Reagan (a republican) for expanding it.
So put that in you hopium pipe and smoke it!
So put that in you hopium pipe and smoke it!
28 comments:
Even taxing the 1% at 100%, essentially confiscating their entire paycheck every two weeks would yield only another $900 billion or so, a band-aid to Obama's gushing deficits. Think about that for a moment. Even complete confiscation would not solve our government's deficit problems.
End game.
That illustration is one to remember for ALL taxation.
Not that we should eliminate taxation, but the fact that it is forcible appropriation of one's property (typically under threat of violence which can range to death) should make us realise this:
As a society, we should not take taxation likely at all, and it should not be done for needless reasons.
Well, the Deficit is and always has been from the American empire. Dismantle it and eliminate at minimum 50% of DoD welfare.
Next retrun Corporate Tax Rates to 50 to 54% as they were under President Eisenhower and then re-enact a financial transaction tax (0.25% should do) for every share traded.
Under these measures the Budget would halved at least, Wall Street would stop it's profligate gambling and the Deficit would be solved.
All they while not enacting the Right's dream of stealing Social Security and giving Coupons for Healthcare.
Grunge said: "Well, the Deficit is and always has been from the American empire. Dismantle it"
There is no empire, so nothing to dismantle. Try again. And put down that 1970 issue of "Pravda". The concept of the existence of any sort of American empire only exists in the old Soviet mindset and their remaining discredited followers.
The DOD is not "Welfare". It is actually one of the few necessary Constitutional functions of the federal government.
When you chart all sources of taxation (SSI, sales, gasoline, excise) you will get an accurate picture of how the American taxation system has become much more regressive.
Meanwhile join the suckers who are willing little lambs watching wealth being transferred upward.
We are a sorry freaking people.
Ducky said: "Meanwhile join the suckers who are willing little lambs watching wealth being transferred upward."
It is. From the ruled, to the ruling class. And the rich are the ones contributing the lions share of taxes to the rulers.
Thank you, Ducky. I also noticed Silver's (and most all of his political bent) convenient neglect to mention any taxes except federal income taxes. But even then, he cites opinions on our federal taxes which simply are not based on facts.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm
Above, we see the OECD average is almost ten percent higher than here in the US - and that's us without the VAT tax most all those countries have!
In general, we are a relatively undertaxed people, completely contrary to the mythology of the righties.
But masked further in all this, unlike most of our competitors, we have a relatively high corporate tax, which is really just our version of a national sales tax, hitting the working and middle class much harder than the wealthy. It is a sneaky way of keeping taxes on the wealthy low, while putting the onus on the common consumers.
Notice few righties are proposing we eliminate the corporate tax, making the costs visible to the consumers by have a national sales tax, or by raising the taxes on the wealthy, to make up the difference.
http://www.businesspundit.com/12-countries-with-the-highest-lowest-tax-rates/
Now, here above we have a rather sleazy take on our taxes, but it shows the Silver is simply not telling the truth: "The United States is still relatively tax-friendly, with a marginal tax rate of around 27% on average income workers." It ranks the US among the twelve lowest taxes nations.
Of course, this is a sleazy rightwing view, that asserts "The standard of living in the US is evidenced by consistently being the most immigrated-to nation on earth — 38,355,000 immigrants currently call the US home, more than double that of Russia, which is second on the list." Of course, this article neglects to mention that our immigration is about half illegal, underpaid, abused, contributes taxes without receiving the commensurate services, and is the result of mass immigration from Third World states within our sphere of influence.
Then you have to consider the way we pay taxes, to what and for what. Take education - most of that is paid by property taxes and steep loans. Everyone pays property taxes, whether they know it or not, and for most of us, it's a far bigger hit on our pocket than it is for the wealthy. Then there's sales taxes, which are flat, and again effect the common man far more than the wealthy. Then there's fees and tolls and all that, that again hit the common man far more than the wealthy.
Then there's how we pay for healthcare, which also effects the wealthy far less tan the common man.
It goes on and on. We have an unfair, unbalanced system that favors the wealthy at almost every turn, and sure enough we now have less upward mobility than those "socialist" bogeymen in Europe. Silver and his ilk seem determined to turn us into a Third World hellhole.
Silver's entire argument is complete and utter bullshit. But of course, it's bullshit that is repeated by the right every single day in the hope that the more repeated the lie, the more people will believe it is truth. And truth is not important to conservatives, not like the all important rationalization of their preconceptions.
JMJ
Alen West said it all!
If I were an American I would vote for this guy Ron Paul, no doubt. I had been having this theory that it was the American foreign policy that was so messed up and it was the reason why America is so hated throughout the world and Ron Paul honestly supported my idea of how a great president should be. During the GOP Presidential Debate in South Carolina, Ron Paul, a congressman from the state of Texas, courageously pointed his finger at American foreign policy of making terrible blowbacks in foreign nations. Ron Paul said that America should listen to the people who attacked America and the reason why they did it. Ron Paul suggested that the only reason why America was attacked was because America had been messing around in other countries. Where they have no business.
Yours truly,
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
In addition, If I were American, I'd listen to what Mr. Ducky's here has to say. He seems to be the only one here who has the good sense to be anti-GOP and Pro liberalism.
if you work hard enough, the wealth transfers down, trust me.
z, I don't believe you have ever had meaningful employment or raised a family.
Why are you lecturing about work?
M. Ahmadinejad: Anyone ever tell you you like like Gilligan?
It seems the public does have itching ears. The class warfare pipers continue to play their song and the public goes along with it.
When are they going to realize that socialism leads to poverty?
Ducky, what an amazing lot of nerve!! WHat's up with you? Not that it's any of your business, but I've been employment, am employed now, I ran my own business for 20 years, I've raised two step children and helped with the raising of 9 nieces and nephews, I've worked with my husband in his businesses and I've found time to occasionally be a "lady who lunches" with friends which somehow brings such disdain from you. (rather cute, actually) Had a 3 hour lunch with an actress friend today, as a matter of fact.
I've worked hard, my husband worked even harder. Wealth transferred down to me and my family (as have my siblings and their husbands). So sue me.
We're not rich but we have what we need.......and we even have some of what we want; but I guess the Left looks upon that as greedy capitalism these days. After all, we are now told who's 'too rich'...unbelievable.
That's why I gave my 11 word 'lecture' on work.......I know what it is.
Hard work pays.
Duck to Z:
I don't believe you have ever...raised a family.
You, Duck, have raised a family? Is that right?
And will you in all your wisdom [cough] please define "meaningful work"?
Silver, are you deleting my posts???
JMJ
AOW, I think I handled it....people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't draw grand conclusions, should they. But, to be unkind and insulting, they'll sure try. I shouldn't even have bothered with the details of my own situation; Ducky knows well that I've talked about these things before; this wasn't about truth (again), this was about meaningless insults. Still, if it makes him happy :-)
No Jersey. This isn't Kooks and Criers, where censorious liberals sit, finger dancing giddily on the delete button at the first sign of dissent.
C'mon, we may disagree on almost everything, but you know I stand for open debate.
Z,
Yeah, you handled it.
But I just couldn't stop myself from weighing in.
Well, maybe you handled it, maybe you didn't.
If it all went in the fan I'm not sure you know the way home. This idea that "everyone can make it" generally comes from people who haven't been up against the wall.
I was thinking about a young women I saw at the laundromat the other night. Five six loads of wash, disheveled, two kids who are obviously clinically hyperactive ... crawling into the dryers and; causing all sorts of mayhem. Been a long time since she had lunch with an actor or ate anywhere but Burger King.
I think you and the rest of the fringe right would begrudge her whatever she gets. Tell her to make better choices and pull herself up.
Okay, you worked twenty years. A lot of us have 45 in and counting and I'm not sure you realize you're lucky.
I've watched my niece play the single mom with an infant and I'll guarantee you've gone through nothing like that. The depression is starting to take hold and I'm finding her a shrink. Naturally her insurance doesn't cover it.
I am a wealthy man and at times I'd like to buy an Aston Martin and just split. But I've made a commitment to those girls and the fall out from their drug addicted father (just a bad choice).
I'm fortunate. I never really had to deal with his addiction. I really admire my best friend who took his brother up to a cabin, tied him down and got him off heroin . His brothers in jail but you try your best.
And this is nothing. There's stuff out there that's off the charts but
let's just sit back and complain about freeloaders and how A.C.O.R.N. is signing them up to vote Democratic.
The wealth doesn't transfer down. The poor pretty much stay poo]r and our lives continue to be organized around grief and tragedy.
The wealth tinkles down. Yeah, it's pretty to think so.
I don't mean to insult you, I really don't but you simply don't know how much you are over
looking and how much damage the fringe right causes.
I should be a little more mellow. Doctor says my fingers can set with out being pinned. Neat. But I listened to that retard Allen West the other day and realized that's how far down the right has dragged my country and there just ain't much kindness in me at the moment.
Ducky said: "A.C.O.R.N. is signing them up to vote Democratic."
Would that this were true. At least freeloaders are real people. Intead, ACORN is a major voter fraud organization, having been caught padding voter rolls with entirely fake voters. This is one of the reasons we MUST have voter ID.
"The wealth tinkles down. Yeah, it's pretty to think so."
It does, under conservative policies. Democratic policies tend to cut off the trickle, or make the money trickle up (which is what taxation does: to the rulers from their subjects).
"I don't mean to insult you, I really don't but you simply don't know how much you are over
looking and how much damage the fringe right causes."
The fringe right are causing no damage at all. This is because the fringe right has 0 power or presence.
I think the problem here is that you think anyone to the right of your position is "fringe", when it is not true. The fact is the the only faction(s) of the right that have any power or presence are quite mainstream, and are not 'fringe' at all.
"But I listened to that retard Allen West"
You are both bashing the mentally disabled AND insulting West. Why not call him the N-word? It is only slightly worse than R-word.
Your hatred for the mentally disabled betrays a vicious "might makes right" mentality that is common on the Left, where it is justified that the "perfect" people get to kick the "imperfect" around a lot.
Next thing you know, you get people like Bill Maher saying that the "retards" aren't even human and should be treated like dogs. And then they get killed.
...there just ain't much kindness in me at the moment."
Nothing like bashing an uppity black man in particular and venting hatred at the mentally disabled in general just because you feel bad.
Please forgive me, but I am not a sociopoth who is so weak-minded as to engage in such bigotry just when I feel a little unhinged.
Z: You sound like a hard working person who rightfully resents the idea of the Left that the powerful ruling elites need to take more and more of you just because you are productive and get a rightful reward for your work.
Yeah right, Ducky. Like a man rich with investments and expensive firearms lockered in Maine hang out in laundromats...
What are you, running for office. Spare us. I myself have lived on the wrong side of the tracks, and I have lived at best in working class neighborhoods my whole life, including right now.
Now, to your point: If government assistance actually lifted people out of poverty and dependence instead of miring them deeper in it, I don't think too many of us would be complaining.
It is a crime what our federal government had done to people.
On the other hand the "fringe right" you castigate gives more to charity than the left does.
Your whole post describes life, so what's your answer?
You're right that wealth doesn't just trickle down. How's that supposed to work? Money falling from the sky?
I say this as a working class man who came into this world with a few $20 savings bonds, gifts from my grandparents, and that's probably about all I'll have when I leave.
I've made a few investments, but Bush and Dirty Hank Paulson drained them to pay off the Wall Street Pirates who wrecked the economy.
Any heart sob story you can tell, someone else can top it, though I personally cannot, unless you want me to start telling you of the poverty I've seen in Latin America and South Asia. Poor people here are living a dream in comparison.
There is probably not one person who visits this blog who has not personally helped out another in some material way, so take your broad brush and try painting a smiley face for someone else with it instead of souring our day.
Finally, in another example of Ducky having no idea what he was saying, we need to address his specific charge that West is a "retard".
From Wikipedia:
"West received his bachelor of arts degree from the University of Tennessee and his master's degree in political science from Kansas State University. He also earned a master of military arts and sciences degree from the U.S. Army Command and General Staff Officer College in political theory and military history and operations.[3]"
It takes a very smart man to have accomplished this much. This resume/record decisively proves that Mr. West does not suffer from mental disabilities.
This reminds me of the time Ducky said that Apple had abandoned the desktop, when in fact the company's desktop models are now dominant, they sell more than ever before. and the company plans on soaring sales into the future.
Hint to Duck-watchers: if he says something, chances are it is not true.
Like a man rich with investments and expensive firearms lockered in Maine hang out in laundromats...
==========
That's right Silver. I live in Everett, one of the poorest towns in the area and drive a ten year old Saturn.
Point is that the wealth don't trickle down. Anyone who believes that is a fool or extremely sheltered.
dmarks -- Allen West is a fucking asshole. Don't play the freaking sophist.
I will concede a point to ducky. While the income tax is certainly progressive, it is only a portion of the total tax burden. However I'm not sure how you could make the other taxes more progressive? So, they do not really factor into this argument. Silver wins, flawless victory.
Ducky: In what magical world is wealth supposed to trickle down and make us all millionaires?
You work and you make money. Despite a slowdown, we still have very high wealth mobility, both up and down.
Ducky: Sophist? you are so careless with words that it is like English is your third language. And yes bashing someone as a "retard" is similar to using faggot, the N-word, etc.
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