Wednesday, July 25, 2012

No Man is an Island

Poor President Obama and his liberal worshipers are still howling like scalded dogs over conservative criticism of Obama's "You didn't make that" speech. How dare we take him in context!

Two points previously made:

1) Yes, we all benefit from infrastructure, but only Steve Jobs made the iPhone

2) Cuba and North Korea have infrastructure too: School teachers, roads and bridges, so there must be something else that drives an economy.

An Un-serious President

The President was engaging in campaign rhetoric, tossing some "red" meat to the proles and stoking their resentments. Look at his face and listen to the crowd reaction and you'll see what I mean. It's clear he is in the throes of theatrical populist hyperbole.

But how can we take someone like him seriously? How many anti-infrastructure rallies has the tea parties hosted? He's attacking strawmen. Everybody this side of the most fervent Randoid knows that No Man is an Island. Government worked fine when it was consuming 18% of GDP--it now consumes closer to 24%. How much is enough?

If government would limit itself to just funding that infrastructure liberals are constantly whining about, we would not be having these arguments, and we would not be mired in this economic morass.

And if he wants to yap on about who pays what in this country, let's have that conversation.

Business owners and working people benefit not at all from the cawing aviary of special interest rent-seekers now roosting in thousands of government agencies and gobbling billions of dollars in taxpayer contributions. Also, those rich factory owners, along with Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and even famous tax dodger Warren Buffet, paid far more for those roads than did the other 99% of America.

Push Back on the Give Back

And let's expose the "Give something back" argument for the leftist guilt trip that it is. "Give back" presupposes that someone took something. That is why it is an absurd statement. So until demagogues like Obama can give us details on just what exactly "the rich" took from us, (and which ones? Name names!), I'll continue to ignore them.

Speaking of the Absurd notion of "Taking..." and "Giving Back..."

What have all those recipients of government-subsidized student loans and government grants given back?

How are welfare recipients, government housing residents and food stamp users giving back?

At the next DC-NY taxpayer-funded orgy, Obama should ask GE CEO Jeffrey HeMelts when GE will "give back" all the damned tax money they have scammed us out of. When will Obama-owned GM give back the $50 billion he took from us and gave them in a fit of crony crapitalism that would make FDR blush? When will Solyndra and all of Obama's other failed venture socialist projects "give something back?"

And didn't effete millionaire jet setters Michelle and Barack Obama use government-subsidized student loans and grants to attend Ivy League schools? And don't those schools receive millions each year in government funds? Have the Obama's given it back?

If liberals really want to go down this road of "give something back," we conservatives and libertarians should take them all the way.

IMAO - Hatred of Earned Success
What Obama Doesn’t Get

90 comments:

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ducky's here said...

The entrepreneur is necessary for Kapital to avoid a state of inertia. Fine, we've read, Schumpeter and if anyone is arguing that the iPhone should be quashed, I haven't heard it.
However, you're going to have to move in freaking mysterious ways to delineate Gates' innovations.

However, they need a society to function in and making the big jump to railing on progressive taxation you're going to have to tell me what the Walton sisters produce. They own a significant percentage of America's wealth and have never produced anything. They probably pay a lower tax rate than you do.

So enjoy the wealth transfer or wise up, your choice.

Silverfiddle said...

@ Ducky: you're going to have to tell me what the Walton sisters produce

They maintain warehouses all over the country so I don't have to stockpile aspirin and shotgun shells.

It's called providing a service. They have to cater to the customer to gain their wealth. Give us what we want at a reasonable price, or we'll go somewhere else.

I know that concept is hard for a Marxist to understand, so I'm being gentle.

Shaw Kenawe said...

1) Yes, we all benefit from infrastructure, but only Steve Jobs made the iPhone

No. Only the people that Steve Jobs hired [he knew squat about semi-conductors and engineering] made the iPhone. He didn't "make it" himself.


It took a village.

Joe Conservative said...

The government may "own" the country's infrastructure, but they sure as sh*t didn't BUILD it. They're are ducky's equivalent to the Walton sisters... and he wants them to run EVERYTHING. Go figure.

Joe Conservative said...

The "village" needs to realize that their much desired "new boss" is "same as the old boss".

The "government" produces NOTHING.

Shaw Kenawe said...

The government may "own" the country's infrastructure, but they sure as sh*t didn't BUILD it. They're are ducky's equivalent to the Walton sisters... and he wants them to run EVERYTHING. Go figure.


US Army Corps of Engineers


"...38,000 civilian and military personnel, making it the world's largest public engineering, design, and construction management agency. Although generally associated with dams, canals and flood protection in the United States, USACE is involved in a wide range of public works throughout the world. The Corps of Engineers provides outdoor recreation opportunities to the public, and provides 24% of U.S. hydropower capacity."

Shaw Kenawe said...

"The "government" produces NOTHING."

Victory in WWII, NASA's space program, Hoover Dam, The American Interstate Highway System, just to name a few of what you consider "NOTHING."

Silverfiddle said...

I love it how when progressives are pressed to mention something productive the government has done, they have to point to the military.

Silverfiddle said...

And the point of the Steve Jobs comment, Shaw, is that we all benefit from infrastructure, but only a brilliant few have breakout ideas, and only the hardworking risk-takers start businesses and become successful, so infrastructure is just that, a good foundation.

Joe Conservative said...

"...38,000 civilian and military personnel, making it the world's largest public engineering, design, and construction management agency.

...operative words... management agency. I worked with the USACE. Bechtel and Raytheon do ALL the work, and the USACE approves the invoices for the taxpayers.

Sam Huntington said...

No. Only the people that Steve Jobs hired [he knew squat about semi-conductors and engineering] made the iPhone. He didn't "make it" himself. It took a village.

Shaw embraces the Marxist principle of vertical collectivism. Who saw that coming? Like most Marxists, she’s delusional, or ignorant. Men who owned the capital to start the most successful company in US history hired people who knew squat about semi-conductors. They paid their employees a good wage and very likely, additional forms of compensation, such as medical and dental programs, stock options, and paid holidays —demonstrating that the owners appreciated and valued their employees. We must additionally credit Apple for hiring the right people and for communicating to them Apple’s vision in an emerging industry. The founders of Apple took all the risks. Had Apple failed, we would properly attribute this failure to Steve Jobs, Steve Wosniak, and Ron Wayne —not the engineers in their employ.

Sam Huntington said...

BTW, when you get a moment, send the Army Corps of Engineers and Congress a thank you note for the disaster they created in New Orleans.

Jarhead said...

What a shock!
Well, he promised he will change this country. Thats and he did and what he is doing it. The real fools here. are the idiots who voted for him. But unfortunately we got him as well.

This has a miserable record of failures now, and all the public can remember him for is his vacations, his hip hop parties, his and his wife the Moocher's overspending, race baiting, lying, and taxing. We knew he lied through his teeth to get elected in 2008. I hated this fraud, this creep, this corrupt clown and the people he pals around with, and surrounds himself with. from day one..
But the brain-dead libs and the Progressive dingbats will vote for him no matter what. There is nothing he can do to discourage their vote. Nothing except maybe take away their free-bees. .

And by the way, Boehner is a real disappointment. He needs to go also.
And we need to support Michele Bachmann and all the others who are willing to put themselves on the line to save this nation.

conservativesonfire said...

So, let's spend like Clinton, 18% of GDP, and tax like Bush, revenues were 18% of GDP. Would that make the Duck happy?

Jarhead said...

conservativesonfire said...
So, let's spend like Clinton, 18% of GDP, and tax like Bush, revenues were 18% of GDP. Would that make the Duck happy?



Who cares about making Duck happy?

I know that I don't!

Rob said...

Rich & I have argued a number of times over the taxes that drive public education. He believes that it is equitable that we all pay a share because it's for the good of society at large. I contend that we should all pay some, but those who are actively using the system should pay a proportionately higher rate.

That is, the retired couple next door should not have to pay as much (the county school district claims about 54% of the property taxes here) as I do, since I have a school age child. Accordingly, the family down the block who has 4 school age children should pay a much higher amount since they are actively using thay much more of the resources.

My primary motivation here is to get apathetic parents engaged. If it's gonna seriously cut into your Coors Light money, then perhaps you'll put a bit more thought into whether you should pop out another kiddo. And if you opt to do so, then maybe ponying up more bucks will encourage you to be a more active participant in your child's education - schools aren't babysitters and no teacher bears the -primary- responsibility for your child's education.

But the "give back" factors in heavily here too. Where's the incentive for me to pay so much in taxes towards a civic infrastructure that, for more than 25 years of my working life, I neither used nor had any influence over? More than half of my taxes support public schools, yet I'm all but powerless to effect changes like more nutritive food being offered in the cafeteria and less needless, baseless tech being crammed into the classroom.

And when these non-contributing zeros graduate from high school, where's the social good? Where's the "give back?" Where's the return on my investment? The system glosses over key skills that would make these people truly valuable members of our society in favor of learning how to prep for & take tests. For example, in my day, we had a "speech" class that helped you build interpersonal skills so you could talk to people and land a job. Now schools emphasize tech that hobbles kids' ability to communicate face-to-face.

Yet other than writing letters to my school district representative - which I have done - I have little choice but to sit back and watch my tax dollars being perpetually squandered on initiatives that do not encourage "give back."

Shaw Kenawe said...

If Apple had failed, Xerox, who developed the GUI and all kinds of other technology that was used by Apple, and many, many other companies that were doing the same thing, would have easily replaced Apple.

And Apple did fail while Jobs was in charge, and he was fired as a result.

Jobs didn't know details about processors or the technology--he needed people around him who were real technical people to create the software, he bought the hardware.

There's no doubt that what he did was wildly successful. But that success depended on lots of people around him who could deliver what he demanded of them.

I know a bit about this, since my husband actually interfaced with Jobs when he was a start-up in Cupertino, CA, and begging for allocation of memory.

Also, Huntington, your ignorant name-calling destroys any value you think you bring to the conversation.

You know nothing about me, and your stupid labeling shows it.

Silverfiddle said...

Shaw: No one is arguing that Steve Jobs single-handedly built the iPhone!

My point, again (I don't know how many times I have to explain things to you), is that he is a singular individual. We all enjoy public infrastructure, but only a hardy few use it as a springboard to success.

Of course it takes a collection of diverse talents to make this all happen, but your rush to credit collectivism is over the top.

Consider this:
@ Sam: Had Apple failed, we would properly attribute this failure to Steve Jobs, Steve Wosniak, and Ron Wayne —not the engineers in their employ.

Take it further. Had Apple failed, it would have all been on the owners, not on the larger collective society.

Z said...

Sam is brilliant, Shaw, you'd do well to ignore whatever "stupid labeling" he uses and listen.

I don't believe the point here in SF's post is that people don't need other people for help in private businesses. JOBS HIRED HIS PEOPLE, HIS MONEY paid for them....NOT THE GOV'T.

And, by the way, who the heck pays for the government and all those bridges and roads and other infrastructure? OUR TAXES.

SF "I love it how when progressives are pressed to mention something productive the government has done, they have to point to the military."

You made my day. :-)
z

My Conservative Thoughts said...

SF I love it when progressives are right there to defend anything and everything that Obama says and does. And Shaw here is a prime example.
We cannot have a more progressive president than Barack Obama and that is wht his policies have been such a failure. It should be embarrassing to these libbies but no, instead people like Shaw here are always tright there to make excuses or pass the blame..
But didn’t someone predict that from day one? Oh yes, it was Rush Limbaugh, the one the Progressives call all those names
This amateur Obama know nothing about the American Dream, All he cares about is getting reelected. What if anything has this man done beside increasing the National Debt. What does he know about Foreign Policy, besides helping the Muslim Brotherhood? He is certainly not trustworthy, or honest, he is not a person who values our country. He and his gang are running our country like a gang of Chicago political thugs and destroying America.
Me, I'll be voting for President Romney because he's our only hope in taking America back from the lazy, self absorbed, libbies who don't love America and only what to take and give nothing. This is what happens if you give freedom to idiots

Steve said...

Sam is a condescending ass, who like you is to stupid to know mass murders happened before 40 years ago, but was willing to listen to some idiot talk show host for your "facts". Not a secret with dumb shit Republicans who only listen to FOX noise.
Sure glad I could enlighten you on the truth you ignorant, insulting traitor to America.

Radical Redneck said...

This was to be expected, liberals have no idea what they are talking about, but they are the first to yell when their right to free speech has been violated. I'm past being sick of taking care of a bunch of whiny, lazy, weak liberals..
Like those pathetic.Occupy crack heads.
That’s why the most important thing is to dump their Leader in November, that is if you hate their ideology and everything it stands for as I do.

Silverfiddle said...

Steve, your ignorant, foam-at-the-mouth ranting enlightened no one.

Finntann is the one who put the facts out there.

Go crap your liberal self somewhere else.

Steve said...

I love to come to where all the vomit is spewed by republiscums and get first grade lies

skudrunner said...

Seems like the great one spends a lot of time trying to pull back his true feelings when he "is miss quoted".
The one thing the government, local or federal, do for my business is increase non productive costs.

When Shaw mentioned the corps of engineers as a good example of government productivity, she probably has not dealt with them. They are just another bloated government agency employing a massive amount of incompetent people who enforce antiquated standards.

Radical Redneck said...

SF, I'm shocked that you allow a piece of Scum like Steve to crap up your otherwise fine blog.

Silverfiddle said...

Radical Redneck:

Thanks for the compliment on the blog.

Even fine chocolate candy bars need some nuts to spice things up.

My policy is to leave loony lib comments as standing totems of stupidity.

Progressive vulgarity and fleck-spittle irrationality should not be swept under the rug; it should be exposed for all to see.

Lisa said...

This is for Steve
enjoy

Steve said...

That's funny. I catch you in a lie, give you the evidence, but it was someone else that set you straight.
See, first grade lies
I'm sure you have to apologize to your readers all the time
It's one thing to get something wrong.
It takes a true republiscum to continually lie
Right, I'm so out of line given the insulting, lying shit written on this vomit blog.

Lisa said...

then go vomit on your own blog loser!

Lisa said...

Go find some OWS protest. That sounds more like your type.

Ducky's here said...

they have to point to the military.

----
Not exactly, soldier boy.

The volunteer military that fought WW II is a bit different than the indoctrinated force in Afghanistan.

What does amuse me is that the folks most vocal about the government's inability to accomplish anything are often military and brook little criticism of that boondoggle.

Joe Conservative said...

The volunteer military of WWII? They invented the draft just for Vietnam??? Who knew?

Joe Conservative said...

After the United States entered World War II, a new selective service act made men between 18 and 45 liable for military service and required all men between 18 and 65 to register. The terminal point of service was extended to two years after the war. From 1940 until 1947—when the wartime selective service act expired after extensions by Congress—over 10,000,000 men were inducted.

Liberals sure love forced labour. America hasn't had THAT many "volunteers for America" since Lincoln freed the slaves.

Silverfiddle said...

OK, little Stevie went on a diaper rash ranting vulgar tirade and I had to delete two of his comment because he was smearing poop on the walls.

Stevie,
We knew you were a flaming leftwinger all along. I make that distinction to separate you from your sane liberal cousins whom we welcome here.

Your irrational comments and stubborn immunity to facts gave you away way before your vulgar impotent rage did.

Steve said...

Gee, SF has a line that crosses his own insulting, lying shit? Who knew>
Thanks for deleting me, now I can go back to the rest of the Communist, and wear it like a badge of courage, while we have a good laugh about all you troglodytes.

Z said...

SF "Go crap your liberal self somewhere else."

thanks...he found geeeeZ.
And I started deleting too, too. NOBODY comes to geeeZ and calls MY readers SCUM, trust me. Yup, steve's one of those who appears before elections to stir things up. I hope he has a job that pays better than what he must make doing this.
"I don't know WHY people infer I'm a Liberal.." :-) what @($*#&@(*&#$

Silverfiddle said...

Also, little Stevie, you need to learn the difference between a mistake and a lie. And screaming vulgarities at someone is not correcting them. Doing what Finntann did, providing statistics is.

Now get along, shortpants and plop yourself down and watch MSLSD. You'll actually accomplish something by doubling their viewership.

Steve said...

Facts? Like the false facts I called you on, so you had to apologize to your readers.
Keep piling up the lies you Westboro Baptist Church member.

Silverfiddle said...

See Steve, you are proving your irrationality.

I did not say there were no mass murders 40 years ago; I wondered aloud, like the talk show host you ignorantly pegged as a rightwinger, why we are seeing more now.

I had a perception bias, and Finntann's facts made me face it and admit that I was wrong.

You stamped your little feet and called me a lying liar.

Finntann provided links to facts, along with written words that made sense.

See the difference?

Steve said...

It was you and your ignorant readers who called me a liar, and you wouldn't even check out the source I gave you, 3 times.
Keep lying you American traitor.

Louis H. said...

I'm thinking Steve is about 10 years old. Remarkable computer skills for one so young, although the vocabulary is about right.

Silverfiddle said...

Steve:

You are an unhinged, swivel-eyed raving loonie.

I checked both my blog and Shaw's for Sunday, and nowhere did you provide a link. Here's one of your typical fleck-spittle comments:

Google it!
SF was just over at Shaw's blog calling me a liar for what I said here.
I wish you people would educate yourselves and stop calling people who disagree with you liars, especially if you HAVEN"T GOT A CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
SF lied about there being no coverage of these incidents in the past, so did SAM, and it is EASY to check it out
GOOGLE IT, you can see the videos, the newspapers, and the History of what happened.
Yes, HISTORY, try reading it


Here is a sample of what Finntann said:

@"Murder rates are worse now that 40 years ago, and we are now seeing more random killings."

Per 100,000

In 2010 the US Murder Rate 4.8

Forty years ago in 1972 it was 9.0

There were 14,748 murders in 2010 in a population of 308 million.

In 1972 there were 18,670 murders in a population of 208 million.

So much for that theory.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


Notice how he quoted the incorrct statement he was refuting, then he provided statistics, and finally links so everyone could go examine the data themselves.

Maybe you need to wipe the saliva from your computer screen?

Steve said...

When are you going to give back the money you get from the government? Oh that's different, anyone else getting government money is a lazy so and so, but not you.
What a leach.
Talk about my vocabulary, SF only knows one word, liar.
Get back to FOX noise, you might miss the next lie.

Lisa said...

HE'S BAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!

skudrunner said...

Steve,

You do have anger issues but they can't be solved on a blog. I can't speak for anyone else but the government money seems to flow one way and that is from me to the government. I would like to see some some return on my investment but I doubt that will happen. The current leader only wants to give free stuff and raise taxes on the "rich" and the middle class.

I am just waiting for those who take from me to do what your supreme leader asked them to do, give something back.

Bunkerville said...

Anyone want to bet that was the last time off the prompter!

Leticia said...

Funny how the progressive liberals refuse to admit that are people in this world and this nation that became successful through hard work, long hours, sweat, blood and tears. I shared a few of those stories on my own blog.

Obama nor the MSM can fix what he said. He meant every word regardless of the denial and tirade of his followers, etc.

TOM said...

Hey SCUM
I respond in kind
I tried to be kind, but the scum here only know insults

This Maddening World said...

Free Thinke, Progressive,Socialist, Commies don't ride horses, they eat em.

Lisa said...

'Free Thinke, Progressive,Socialist, Commies don't ride horses, they eat em.'

and dog too.

Steve said...

That's funny a compadre
Someone else you pissed off SF?

Lisa said...

'Someone else you pissed off SF?'

yeah well with commies it doesn't take much,all you need is a different opinion. Just look at the Angry Guy you voted for.

Silverfiddle said...

I would appreciate it if we could keep the vulgarities to ourselves.

Thank you the management

Steve said...

Yes, McCain is an angry man
SF owns vulgarities
Like TOM, I only respond in kind

Jersey McJones said...

Silver, you are not engaging an argument with the Left. Most all would agree with most of what you posted. The disconnect here is that you are arguing in a sort of "all one or the other" sort of way. And life, as the American Left in general sees it, is more complicated than that. We REALLY don't think the way you think we do.

No one's saying we should rape the rich of their every last penny. We're just saying, "Hey, you might have to raises taxes a little on some transactions once in while." It's just a matter of a few degrees of difference. Or do YOU think there should simply be no taxes at all? Of course not. You'd have to be an idiot.

But deeper than all that, when you talk about "infrastructure," I get the feeling that you're just talking about roads and projects and such. Well, that iPhone you mentioned? Do you have any idea how much technological infrastructure and security is involved with that?

Really man. It's great to see you accepting the plain and stark and obvious fucking reality that no one is an island, but again, no serious person is arguing the complete opposite - that we, and our endeavors, are purely and only products of infrastructural assistance. Not even Obama, though you seem to content to believe and repeat that stupid, sleazy lie.

JMJ

Z said...

"My policy is to leave loony lib comments as standing totems of stupidity."

That's what I finally decided to do. It says a LOT about the leftwingers...really sad. let them talk...let them show themselves. No blogs of their own, just spewing nastiness.
For how much an hour, I'm not sure.

Silverfiddle said...

I'm just addressing the liberal arguments Jersey, as stated in their own words.

You were the one accusing me of believing that I'm my own entity, or however you phrased it.

Steve said...

YOUR words, not their words
Dishonesty rules your life, just as it rules your "supposed" quotes form liberals-out of context, but mainly pure lies.

Steve said...

LIES, DAM LIES
On of SF's headlines
That's the most important thing he wants you to know
Name calling hate
And just today SF wrote on Shaw's blog
"I have no idea what the facts are"

Silverfiddle said...

Steve:

Just so everyone know, little Stevie threw another tantrum and insulted Z, so I zapped that comment.

Little Stevie: You can insult me all day long, but you don't insult people who post here.

You're really showing us all what kind of person you are, and you're making a fool of yourself.

Keep it on topic and lay off insulting others or you're gone, little man.

Steve said...

FUSF

Steve said...

Yes Lisa
Republiscums are Zombies

Steve said...

Right, they can insult me, but I can't insult them back
Typical, hypocritical republiSCUM

Jersey McJones said...

Silver, c'mon man. We're not that far apart.

JMJ

Liberalmann said...

Steve Jobs would not have build the iPhone if the government hadn't spent billions in the space program to develop and miniaturize computers.

Jersey McJones said...

Exactly, Liberalmann. I mentioned that earlier, in what I thought and hoped was an understandable way. Apparently it went over the conservatives' heads.

The iPhone? That's an example? Silver, do you have a clue how much taxpayer money went into the technical and secure sectors that allows for such a thing?

You cons, with this argument that each man is his own master and nothing else, have only got it half right.

JMJ

Silverfiddle said...

@ Liberalmann: Steve Jobs would not have build the iPhone if the government hadn't spent billions in the space program to develop and miniaturize computers.

I'll agree with that too. We all stand on the shoulders of giants and work off of what those before us have developed.

Jersey and Liberalmann are being reasonable, unlike the demagogue in chief.

Neither of you are stupid enough to shout "He didn't build that!"

Finntann said...

@However, you're going to have to move in freaking mysterious ways to delineate Gates' innovations.

It's really not that mysterious.

Gates developed the algorithm for pancake sorting that was the fastest for over 30 years.

Bill Gates and Paul Allen developed the BASIC interpreter for the MITS Altair 8800 platform, the foundation of what was later to become Microsoft Basic.

Approached by IBM to develop the BASIC interpreter for their upcoming IBM PC, when talks for a license agreement between IBM and Digital Research for the operating system for the IBM PC broke down IBM turned to Gates.

Microsoft purchased QDOS from Seatle Computer Products and adapted it to run on the IBM platform. This adapted product became MS-DOS.

Everything after that was simply more effective corporate management.

No mystery there.

Cheers!

Finntann said...

@No. Only the people that Steve Jobs hired [he knew squat about semi-conductors and engineering] made the iPhone.

Then why didn't they make it?

Z said...

And herein lies the whole crux of this: "Then why didn't they make it?"

Man, Finntann, you certainly now how to bring a subject down to the basic point. THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY?
Because the streets and bridges and the rest of the infrastructure OUR TAX PAYER DOLLARS PAID FOR didn't have the BRAINS or the COURAGE or the TALENT or the DESIRE.

Rob said...

Whoa. Looking back on that comment I left early this morning, I really went off on an unrelated tangent, didn't I? In my early morning stupor, I guess I just keyed in on the "Giving back" part and jumped off from there. Wow.

Woz was the hardware genius, sure, but Steve Jobs was actually a fair bit more technical than you folks give him credit for. He would've never made it to India had Atari not sent him to Germany to troubleshoot the power supplies on their game consoles.

Jobs -DID- build the iPhone every bit as much as, for example, George Lucas created Star Wars. Both are mashups of a dozen or more products and ideas that already existed, but those guys had the vision and ego-maniacal drive to re-use those disparate building blocks in unprecedented ways.

Sam Huntington said...

Also, Huntington, your ignorant name-calling destroys any value you think you bring to the conversation. You know nothing about me, and your stupid labeling shows it.

I can take no credit for revealing what you are, madam; your wound is self-inflicted.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Huntington,

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Learn something.

Silverfiddle said...

OK Shaw, we don't need any advertisements for MSNBC here...

Liberalmann said...

Silverfiddle said...

" @ Liberalmann: Steve Jobs would not have build the iPhone if the government hadn't spent billions in the space program to develop and miniaturize computers.

I'll agree with that too. We all stand on the shoulders of giants and work off of what those before us have developed.

Jersey and Liberalmann are being reasonable, unlike the demagogue in chief."

---

And if you had listened to the unedited speech you have seen that was the point Obama was making. It's the same point that Romney recently gave in Virgina. And it's the same point Romney made when he addressed the Olympics a few years ago. Google it, I'm sure it hasn't made it on (dumb)FUX News.

Silverfiddle said...

Way to go Libmann, now I disagree with you.

Unlike you, I take obama based upon his plain words, not what liberal apologists say after him, like the men at the circus with big brooms sweeping up the elephant dung.

Finntann said...

Miniaturization would have taken place with or without government investment, it simply would have taken longer without.

Moore's Law after all.

jez said...

Finntann:
"when talks for a license agreement between IBM and Digital Research for the operating system for the IBM PC broke down IBM turned to Gates.

Microsoft purchased QDOS from Seatle Computer Products and adapted it to run on the IBM platform. This adapted product became MS-DOS.

Everything after that was simply more effective corporate management."

This whole comment was excellent, but you stopped before we got to the interesting bit: why did the IBM platform achieve dominance?

The answer is that the hardware was vastly cheaper and better than any competitors', and this happened because there was a competitive market in IBM-compatible components, unlike other platforms.

So the key to MS dominance and success is the reverse engineering of IBM's original BIOS. This effort had nothing to do with Gates, but without it he would have been nothing more than the president of an moderately successful software house in the 80s, like so many others (which is a pretty admirable level of achievement in itself, of course). The idea that the scale of his success is not contingent on any luck or outside influence is ludicrous. Actually I don't think anybody of you is saying that, except by accident.

He build on his luck of course, but at least some of that consolidation work was rather questionable. We all have our flaws. I'm inclined to like him since he is obviously doing his best not to be a tit with the fabulous wealth he has acquired. That's strength of character!

jez said...

"Miniaturization would have taken place with or without government investment, it simply would have taken longer without.

Moore's Law after all."

Slower hardware development would have meant better software optimisation for earlier generations of hardware, which would have resulted in a vastly different computing landscape. Most likely we'd all use terminals and rent time on a mainframe. We laugh at Thomas Watson for predicting back in the '40s that there would be a world market for only 5 computers, but he was reckoning without the truly madcap pace of semiconductor development. It was a perfectly reasonable prediction, really.

Jarhead said...

Inquiring minds want to know.
Is Steve, Tom, and Shaw the same person, although they have different names. If that's what these Idiots want us to believe, then fine.

But you've already proved you're an idiot with your original post, why bother to try to convince anyone any further!

Always On Watch said...

In his campaign speeches, Obama is ramped up. It's pure demagoguery, and when his hand is called, he backtracks and/or cries "Foul!"

Well, he really DID foul the nest with his you-didn't-build-it statement.

FreeThinke said...

Bill gates is living proof that in the real world Might Makes Right. gates has never been much of a creator, but he's a positive genius at games of MANIPULATION and DOMINATION.

In short Bill Gates is a World Champion Bully.

That's what virtually ALL people deemed "successful" really are at root.

True creative geniuses have always been EXPLOITED by the bully boys.

Rarely has genius ever received rewards commensurate with the value of its output -- UNLESS you consider virtue and producing work of great intrinsic value to be their own reward.

~ FreeThinke

skudrunner said...

"If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

Hard to refute what the liar and thief said. As with most democrats, he stands against small business because they can't contribute enough to his campaign and are non-union. As the democrat senate showed yesterday, to hell with small business and the middle class, we ill raise your taxes.

FreeThinke said...

I move that we ban or jettison all posts that use "freaking" and "the fringe right." These are examples of the rampant illiteracy and vulgar inelegance in current parlance that threaten to destroy the English language.

Either we summon the necessary courage to stand up to the dumbing down process, or we let it turn us into gibbering idiots.

Insultese aka Snotspeak is NOT English.

~ FreeThinke

Ema Nymton said...

.

What does this say about _YOU_?

Mr Obama said, "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that." Mr Obama was clearly talking about the 'roads and bridges'.

The saddest part of all this is Murdoch Media/Fox Networks know Mr Obama was talking about 'roads and bridges'. Murdoch Media/Fox Networks do not care that they are lying to _you_! Murdoch Media/Fox Networks know you (and thousands of other suckers) will soil yourself over the lie without thinking. An amazing thing is that you willingly and ignorantly believe the bull sh!t from Murdoch Media/Fox Networks that’s handed to gullible, low-information folks like you, and then parade your ignorance as though it’s something to be proud of. It is a lie you want to be true so you knowingly choose to side with the liar.

Integrity; you either have it or you don't!

You have in front of you, a direct quote of what the man said. A second entity tells you the man said something HE DID NOT SAY, a lie. You knowingly choose to side with the liar for the sake of political expediency.

What does this say about _YOU_, that you are willing to allow such illegitimate deceitfulness? Why would any honest people ever want to join ‘your side, if you are willing to align yourself with flat-out blatant liars?’

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
.

Darth Bacon said...

Ema has once again escaped from the asylum ..

skudrunner said...

Ema

O course that is what he said and that is why he is trying to "walk back" his statement. Only the lock step leftists can't admit that he said what he thought and that is he has no use for or respect for small businesses and the middle class.

"Integrity; you either have it or you don't!" With some work even you can develop integrity, well maybe a lot of work but you can do it.

Finntann said...

Jez, I wasn't trying to explain Microsoft's dominance in the market, simpy to respond to Ducky's "to delineate Gates' innovations."

Ema...

"If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own."

"I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there."

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. "

"Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive"

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

Yeah, rolls eyes... sure, he's talking about roads, when every previous sentence he uttered denigrates individual achievement. Try putting context in your context.

Sure...

If you give 100 people 100 dollars, and 99 of them spend it, and one turns it into 1000 dollars.

HE DIDNT DO THAT! SOMEONE GAVE HIM THE HUNDRED DOLLARS.

So, why haven't you turned your gift of roads and bridges into a multi-million dollar business?

Cheers!