President Obama went on Safari, killing a defanged, declawed, compliant old lion, already hobbled into docility. All that's missing is a picture of the "brave" hunter standing astride his prey, brandishing the blunderbuss, oversize pith helmet propped up only by his cartoonishly large ears...
What happened to them? Given the track record of Islamic fanatics, they're lucky they're not pretty young men...
Khadaffi...
Khadaffi...
President Reagan defanged him. President Bush got him to cooperate with us on the war on terror. Peace Prize Nobel Laureate Barack Obama killed him, despite Khadaffi calling him friend. This sends a clear message to dictators everywhere: Do not cooperate with the United States. Dig in. Murder, maim, threaten and brandish chemical and nuclear weapons. Anything but crack the door open. Especially after Obama turned on US amigo Hosni Mubarack.
Does anyone think Basher Assad will go out any other way than Tony Montana at the end of the movie Scarface? Does anyone think that there are any horrors he will not author to avoid Khadaffi's fate?
Does anyone think Basher Assad will go out any other way than Tony Montana at the end of the movie Scarface? Does anyone think that there are any horrors he will not author to avoid Khadaffi's fate?
Obama Should Run on His Foreign Policy Record
We Americans love us a mess a Ferner Killin'! And the progressive life-haters especially cherish the opportunity to publicly wallow in a death when it is cloaked in the odor of humanitarian sanctity.
Obama has set a record for killing more people than any other Nobel Peace Prize laureate.
That's some change! And it's quite a feat. Terrorist pederast Yassir Arafat was the previous record holder.
The world is now a safer place. Unless you are a dark-skinned Chadian trying to get the hell out of Libya...
75 comments:
I for one will not fully embrace this Libya thing, nor his warning to Syria yesterday. At this point, he backed Egypt's efforts to remove Mubarack which brought in the Brotherhood. Who truly are this rebels in Libya? I am sure not even the state dept knows for sure.
Terrorist pederast Yassir Arafat was the previous record holder.
--------------
That's incorrect. Henry Kissinger, the old Foggy Bottom Bombardier himself is way way out in front.
Exactly how did Obama kill Gadhafi? I thought it was the rebels that ultimately pulled the trigger . . .
We're blaming him for the actions of others now? Shouldn't France and all the other countries that helped the rebels be accused of killing Gadhafi now?
Jack:
So a US president is exonerated from the consequences of his deliberate policy actions? That's a new one...
Ducky: Thank you for pointing out the oversight. The Nobel Peace Prize is pretty tarnished, isn't it?
I think this year's Peace prize has merit. Hope it was a makeup for the disgrace of awarding it to Obama.
The peace prize has had a pretty spotty history.
I have heard that a Drone strike was part of the attack that ultimately led to Gadhafi's death. I am sure Obama didn't order that strike specifically, but he is the one responsible for the dramatic increase in the use of Predator Drones.
Even though she was only a Presidential Medal of Freedom winner, and not a Nobel Prize winner, the peace-nik with the most deaths directly or indirectly attributable to their activies has to be Rachel Carson, ('Silent Spring' author) who facilitated the banning of DDT, and who subsequently was responsible for millions of deaths due to malaria.
She was certainly Nobel material, however, based on the current critera.
Great satirical writing on your part, SilverFiddle! The application of dry wit and wry humor neatly avoids the sanctimonious, didactic approach while making points with the precision of a Bengal lancer. BRAVO!
The irony of a Nobel Peace Prize winner attempting to save his political ass by tepidly sponsoring -- and then claiming credit for -- a series of political assassinations of malefactors long discredited and enfeebled by the hard work and sacrifice previous administrations is not lost on me. It would be hilarious if it weren't so depressing -- and ultimately chilling.
Jack asks a good question. Who actually killed Khaddafi -- the odious man whose name the media could never decide how to spell? Yes "we" ostensibly supported Daffy's ouster, and I doubt any sane person is shedding any tears over his ignominious demise, but where do "we" get the unmitigated gall to claim credit for an act that appears to have been carried out by irate Arab peasants in revolt?
C-Span this morning was full of passion on the subject. Frankly, it disgusts me the way Obama supporters have seized on this sordid, repugnant event as a triumph for their Dear Leader.
A reporter named Landler from The New York Times was right there spinning it for dear life as evidence of "Obama's superior new approach to foreign policy" by acting collectively and not unilaterally and by avoiding American casualties and wasteful expenditure by implementing a policy of net, clean, "efficient," surgical strikes." That's not a direct quote but my own, doubtlessly flawed, interpretative synthesis of Landler's probamatic propaganda.
"Life is a comedy to him who thinks, and a tragedy to him who feels."
~ attributed to Anatole France
Ah well, ON WITH THE DANCE!
~ FreeThinke
Fredd is right!
Fredd,
That sounds like a direct steal from the routine ant-environmentalcase rhetoric of Rush Limbaugh -- a man I greatly admire, but no one could ever claim he isn't entirely "agenda-driven."
I'd love to be there when you indict Rachel Carson in front of a meeting of the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, or NOW. The fireworks you'd set off would probably surpass the July 4th Festivities of 1976.
What you've done is add more evidence that the Law of Unintended Consequences seems never to enter into the calculations of militantly determined do-gooders.
So much death and destruction has been wrought by single-minded ideologues and the insolent, unprincipled demagogues who seize power by taking up the cudgel for the issues fanatical idealists bring to public awareness.
What a desperate need the nation has for a return to thoughtfulness, patience and sobriety!
~ FreeThinke
FT: Thank you!
And I love this quote (I had never heard it before):
"Life is a comedy to him who thinks, and a tragedy to him who feels."
~ attributed to Anatole France
And the progressive life-haters especially cherish the opportunity to publicly wallow in a death when it is cloaked in the odor of humanitarian sanctity.
-------------------------
Yikes. Could you write that any more eloquently? I am strongly considering using it on my blog.
Silver, I really don't understand why you're saying that Obama killed him.
#1 the extent of our involvement in Libya was bombing runs, maybe some minimal clandestine ground support.
#2 We weren't even spear-heading the campaign. France was leading the way.
#3 It wasn't even American forces that that killed Gadhafi.
#4 Do we credit the capture of Slobodan Milosevic to Bill Clinton because of our bombs?
#5 Should we credit every Iraqi civilian death to GWB?
#6 Weren't you among those who thought it was a good idea to put a hit on Osama bin Laden, who was also helpless when he was killed?
I generally really enjoy your work, but I feel like you're seriously grasping at straws on this one.
So how did this Liberal, peace-prize winning President get us into an illegal, undeclared war?
Rumor has it those in international financial power want these tin-horn dictators ejected and the Muslim Brotherhood installed. Egypt... Libya... Syria's next and the cherry on top may be Saudi Arabia. These elite are the ones Obama answers to, not the American People.
This situation is exactly why our founders put the power of war in the hands of Congress, not the President. They saw the executive as most tempted by, and most likely to use, the dogs of war. Or even to go on a hunting expedition for a flabby, worn-out third world Colonel.
His epitaph will always include his fine choice of Russian female body guards!
Try to answer me this:
One of the first things the "rebels" did was set up a central bank in Libya - months before Gaddafi was killed. WTF?
When was the last time you heard of an insurgency rushing to put up a bank as first order of business?
To get more ammunition, AA guns, or rice, yes. A Bank?
Who was running this show, anyhow?
Jack:
What else could one conclude from this statement?
He (Obama) also issued a veiled warning to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and other long-entrenched Middle Eastern leaders resisting home-grown democracy movements to take heed of Gaddafi's fate.
"Our leadership at NATO has helped guide our coalition. Without putting a single U.S. service member on the ground, we achieved our objectives..."
And yes, Clinton gets credit for bagging Slobo.
ecc102: Feel free to use anything you find here!
We love linkage!
So what you're saying is that Obama should get the credit for Gadhafi's death because he intended it to happen?
So that means Obama definitely should have gotten the Peace Prize for his intentions to be peaceful?
George W Bush should get the credit for Osama bin Landen because he intended for that to happen?
Intentions mean nothing, and actions that indirectly lead to an end don't mean much more. If intentions mean something, then every nation that helped Libya should be credited with Gadhafi's death.
Whatever, Jack. This entire post is lost on you, which is surprising given your own inventive and highly entertaining writing style.
The lesson learned is "Do not give up your nuke energy, and grab WMD as fast as you can. Gaddafi's big mistake. He would be alive, if he had not dismantled.
Since it's quote day:
Leopards break into the temple and drink to the dregs what is in the sacrificial pitchers; this is repeated over and over again; finally it can be calculated in advance, and it becomes a part of the ceremony.
--- Kafka
We can argue about who killed Qadaffi but is there a more important question? What was different here in Obama's response?
He has been loathe to offer constructive support to the Arab revolts.
He gets caught offering military aid to Bahrain which is jailing and torturing doctors and nurses for treating wounded demonstrators.
He can't get on his knees often enough to the Egyptian military. After all, only the military can control (and cause?) the violence against Copts.
Syria, time for some harsh words.
Yemen, any dictator who will allow drone attacks is okay with us.
So we really don't much care for any popular uprisings. Dictators are fine with us.
Why is Qadaffi different? Because he had NOTHING to do with the Middle East. Yeah, we've got some douche nozzle senators yapping about Hamas and al-Qaeda. The usual screed for the right wing bed wetters but Qadaffi worked his mischief in Africa and Obama cares about Africa.
Witness his deployment of drones (man he loves them) against the LRA. Eliminating that group along with elimination of Qadaffi can be seen as a real positive for Africa.
So an apparent double standard is really pretty easy to explain.
Pleas explain what about this post is lost on me.
If it's all about laughing at the Nobel people then fine. But saying that this kill should be credited to Obama is a bit out there for me.
I wanted Saddam dead, so am I and everyone else complicit in his death because we voted for GWB?
Jack: Depends on who's logic one uses.
Ducky Said:
Since it's quote day:
Leopards break into the temple and drink to the dregs what is in the sacrificial pitchers; this is repeated over and over again; finally it can be calculated in advance, and it becomes a part of the ceremony.
--- Kafka
This reminds me of tax time.
Sleek IRS leopards break into my financial temple and drink my hard earned profits to the last dregs... repeated over and over every year; finally it can be calculated in advance, and becomes a part of the socialist ceremony.
This excursion cost you and me $1,000,000,000. Gaddafi: The One Billion Dollar Man.
You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.
---- Franz Kafka
Ducky Sez:
You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.
---- Franz Kafka
Liberals are so learned when it comes to the shamans of their particular tribe, yet so damned ignorant of human nature and the law of unintended consequences.
That last quote is Globalist grease. It assumes the authority to forceably enter into another country and "fix" whatever is wrong. Whatever happened to letting other cultures evolve? If there is a clearly defined national security interest, then perhaps.
You do not comprehend the corrupting nature of power or what this does to the human spirit.
In the Lord of The Rings (a great allegory on this topic), the only creature who could wield the ultimate ring of power was a humble Hobbit - and then only barely. All others would have used it for evil in the name of good.
Lesson: don't grab for the ring of doing "global good" as it will turn you into the very thing you mock.
"Those who have been once intoxicated with power, and have derived any kind of emolument from it, even though but for one year, never can willingly abandon it."
- Edmund Burke
I believe we have done enough "nation building" for generations of blow-back. We need instead to focus on our own country, a new type of nation building: deconstructing the Socialist State.
You conservatives are utterly without principle. You just can't bring yourselves to say anything nice about the President of the United States. I have no doubt whatsoever if this happened during the terms of a Republican president, you'd be lauding his or her leadership.
Pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
JMJ
You just can't bring yourselves to say anything nice about the President of the United States.
I think he was the best candidate in 2008. McCain could not have fired up the populace like this fellow.
He's a great national-level community organizer, riding herd on tens of thousands of ACORN and OWS types.
He's a text-book perfect Socialst, and will be studied for generations to come.
How about that? See, we can say nice things too.
Thank you, Hugh. No one could say what needed to be said any better. The theme, of course is as old as time.
It's perfectly all right -- even praiseworthy -- to play the Good Samaritan on a one-to-one basis in our daily walk. Attempts, however, to refashion the way whole groups of people live their lives by forcing them to adopt foreign customs and conform to an alien ideological or religious perspective favored by the would-be reformer is haughty, presumptuous and doomed to failure -- after first creating enormous misery that foments corrosive rage and resentment.
"The only prize much cared for by the powerful is power. The prize of the General is not a bigger tent, but command."
~ Oliver W. Holmes (1841-1935)
'Tis often said "The love of money is the root of all evil."
I most vehemently disagree. The love of POWER is the cardinal sin of them all. SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS is a close second.
~ FreeThinke
Nice things about President Obama?
Okay. Here we go. President Obama has beautiful teeth. He's well tailored most of the time, and always clean looking and well groomed. He has a nice deep baritone voice too.
I think he and Michelle probably get along very well. I think he probably loves his daughters.
I also admire his ability to get up every morning and face the cameras with a good semblance of dignity and self-confidence, despite what he must be feeling inside.
If sincerity is always a virtue, I think he may very well be sincere, but if he is, that frightens me more than anything else I could know about him.
Now, tell me, Jersey, If Obama wore the Republican label, could you summon up even the faintest trace of approbation and enthusiasm for his performance as our president?
Look deeply into your soul before you answer.
~ FreeThinke
Using his own inimitably snide brand of contempt Ducky reminded that Henry Kissinger too was awarded the dubious honor a Nobel Peace Prize along with several other undeserving recipients referenced earlier.
I couldn’t agree more, but I may have different reasons from Ducky’s, I don’t know.
Read these words of Heinrich Kissinger, and judge for yourself how deserving a character he may be:
"Power is the greatest aphrodisiac"
"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot].
Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e False Flag or 911], whether real or “promulgated,” that threatened our very existence.
It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown.
When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
- Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991
"The New World Order cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United States to change it's perceptions."
- Henry Kissinger, World Affairs Council Press Conference, Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel , April 19th 1994
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
- Henry Kissinger
“We must speak more clearly about sexuality, contraception, about abortion, about values that control population, because the ecological crisis, in short, is the population crisis. Cut the population by 90% and there aren’t enough people left to do a great deal of ecological damage.”
Henry Kissinger, Former National Security Advisor, Former Secretary of State, chairman of Kissinger Associates, member of the Club of Rome, and Trilateral Commission
Now, go on and tell me to put on my tin foil hat and get back into my padded cell.
~ FreeThinke
@JMJ,
Not true. We can say nice things about President Obama.
He is a fantastic token for the Democrats to attempt in proving their claim they care about African-Americans. He is a great Socialist. He can read a teleprompter like no one's business. He plays golf, a lot! And of course, he is a wonderful basketball player.
See? Nice things.
Obama may also be the only president we've ever had in living memory who could appear in a bathing suit without inspiring girlish giggles.
~ FreeThinke
Obama could somehow get two books published though he had never done anything to warrant two autobiographies at his young age, how's that for something nice?
Obama can go to expensive colleges and avoid telling who paid for them...isn't that saying something nice?
Obama's better than any president at announcing pretty big changes on Friday nights when the media's not looking...that's pretty good, huh?
FREDD is brilliant...so true about DDT.
Jack, an American Predator hits Quacky's convoy with a Hellfire missile. Quacky, runs and hides in a drainage culvert whereupon he is dragged out by insurgents and shot in the head.
Yeah, I guess you are exactly right. Obama didn't pull the trigger.
Of course you completely overlook the question of WTF American Predator drones are doing flying around Libya without congressional authorization and no threat or even American Interest involved.
Jersey. Bush attacks Iraq with congressional authorization and UN authorization and he's BusHitler.
Obama goes screwing around in northern Africa on his own and he's your angel.
You sir are the one who is pathetic.
Cheers!
A caller to Tom Sullivan's radio show said Obama is batting a thousand:
He killed bin Laden, Qadhafi and the American economy.
Who Killed Khadaffi?
"Who killed Khadaffi?"
"I," said the Sparrow,
"With my bow and arrow,
I killed Khadaffi."
"Who saw him die?"
"I," said the Fly,
"With my little eye,
I saw him die."
"Who caught his blood?"
"I," said the Fish,
"With my little dish,
I caught his blood."
"Who'll make the shroud?"
"I," said the Beetle,
"With my thread and needle,
I'll make the shroud."
"Who'll dig his grave?"
"I," said the Owl,
"With my little trowel,
I'll dig his grave."
"Who'll be the imam?"
"I," said the Rook,
"With my little book,
I'll be the imam."
"Who'll be the clerk?"
"I," said the Lark,
"If it's not in the dark,
I'll be the clerk."
"Who'll kill the stench?"
"I," said the Linnet,
"I'll fetch it in a minute,
And bury it in a trench."
"Who will sing praises?"
"I," said the Dove,
"I and my love,
We will sing praises."
"Who'll carry the coffin?"
"I," said Shere Spite,
"If it's not through the night,
I'll carry the coffin."
"Who'll bear the pall?
"We," said the Wren,
"Both the cock and the hen,
We'll bear the pall."
"Who'll chant the Sura?"
"I," said George Bush, "
As he sat on his tush,
I'll chant with bravura."
"Who'll toll the bell?"
"I," said the bull,
"Because I can pull,
I'll toll the bell."
Then the birds with sweet strains
Had great fun pulling taffy,
Spraying turds that made stains
On dead Mohmar Khadaffi.
~ Non-Traditional
Submitted by FreeThinke
Couldn't agree more. His supporters will no doubt scream that oblama is a Peacenik, since he is Getting Out of Iraq. Course, Bush arranged that deal before the 08 elections....
Man, this would be hilarious if it was funny.
Finntann, news reports say the French hit the convoy, sorry about that.
... in fact, the whole thing may have started as a covert rench operation.
Finntann said...
Jack, an American Predator hits Quacky's convoy with a Hellfire missile. Quacky, runs and hides in a drainage culvert whereupon he is dragged out by insurgents and shot in the head.
Yeah, I guess you are exactly right. Obama didn't pull the trigger.
Of course you completely overlook the question of WTF American Predator drones are doing flying around Libya without congressional authorization and no threat or even American Interest involved.
Jersey. Bush attacks Iraq with congressional authorization and UN authorization and he's BusHitler.
Obama goes screwing around in northern Africa on his own and he's your angel.
You sir are the one who is pathetic.
Exactly.
Beyond pathetic.
Osama=dead, al-Awlaki,=DEAD Kadaffi=DEAD
GOBAMA, GOBAMA, IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY, IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY..!!!
Ducky, talk to the Associated Press:
US officials say an American Predator drone was involved in the airstrike that hit the convoy carrying ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, but it is not clear how he got his fatal wounds.
US Officials said the Predator fired on the convoy as it was fleeting Sirte, and French aircraft launched guided missiles. According to most acounts two vehicles in the convoy were hit. Gaddafi was wounded when captured, but later died. He had gunshot wounds to his head, chest and stomach. (AP)
Google the first sentence you'll get about 152,000 hits...
Also saw it on the news this morning.
Sorry.
Oh you silly and ignorant GOP talking heads.
Don't you know that Our Dear Leader is fully in charge and is a warrior among sheep? You hate him because he's an African-American and he's more macho than the whole lot of you put together. You're probably all part of that racist TEA Party movement, on the right wing fringe.
I can't stand it when you morons get together and spout such hateful rhetoric. Our Dear Leader has called on you to be more civil, and you disobey like spoiled children.
You're the enemy! America belongs to the academics, the progressives, and the true patriots of the Democrat Party! Go back to your caves and beat your ugly women, you fascist idiots!
Our Dear Leader, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, has killed more of America's enemies than your drunk old GWB ever could, and you hate it! Our Dear Leader is a true military genius, and it is only due to his awesome manliness that he was able to personally kill those bad, bad meanies.
(sarcasm off)
PROOF "He killed bin Laden, Qadhafi and the American economy."
Excellent...but so sad.
With the economy, he was a little more 'hands on'.
LOL! FT - I've seen many a president on my day and I can say all sorts of good and bad things about all of them, with the facts and memories to back it up. Can you?
Finn and all, Obama acted within the War Powers Act (you do know that, right?), he moved us over into NATO, perfectly legal and constitutional as the law is today (thanks to you cons, by the way), and in the end it's worked VASTLY more efficiently than Iraq or Afghanistan. Now, granted, Libya is small (6 1/2 million people? Maybe?), but they are resource rich. So, don't be so quick to assume this was quite the bad idea you think it is, even if it is all that bad.
JMJ
Why it is okay to parade Gadaffi's body, but we can't release photos of Osama because it will offend Muslims?
I have seen very graphic footage of the capture and slaughter of Gaddafi online.
We must remember this: Gaddafi still has adherents. I think that they will strike Europe because of Europe's proximity. Furthermore, these videos I mentioned above will be available to them -- as will the information that Gaddafi is not receiving a proper Islamic burial. These adherents are, no doubt, enraged.
And, unless I miss my guess, Al Qaeda will, in effect, be elected to office in the upcoming Libyan elections. Remember who got elected to office when the Pseudostinians held elections some years ago?
When was the last time any of you guys read the Bible?
I'm not preaching, just asking, and I have a reason. I happen to be in the middle of reading the Bible from cover to cover -- as a narrative -- for the first time in my 70-year-old life. I was raised in the Protestant Church, and attended faithfully for the better part of fifty years -- a good part of that time as a paid employee. [I supplied the music for several churches in that time period.]
So, I've been very familiar with the Bible, as it was revealed to me in bits and pieces, but had never read it as one reads a story book.
All right. The Old Testament is largely a HORROR story. The ancient tribes of Israel were a vain, self-serving, bloodthirsty, violence-oriented gaggle of murderers, thieves vandals, rapists, adulterers, connivers and tyrants. Moses received the Ten Commandments from God all right, but the tribes of Israel spent untold centuries avoiding and disobeying them at every turn -- their leaders and most prominent figures ALWAYS claiming that "God" told them to commit all these heinous acts to many other Semitic tribes, because “God” found them displeasing to "Him."
What a CROCK!
In my recent reading of the Bible I now realize that in thousands of years NOTHING among the Semitic tribes of the Middle East has changed one whit. They have learned NOTHING.
Intransigence combined with ceaseless Self-Justification is the name of their game. Those ancient tribes still exist today, and they STILL hate each other's guts, and STILL think the answer to all their problems would be to kill off anyone not of their faith or anyone they don't happen to like -- for whatever reason. The Israelis are more advanced than the Muslims to be sure, but they, nevertheless, still see themselves as “Chosen” to jockey themselves into a position where they will at last be able to tell everyone else what to do, how to do it and when. They’re just more subtle and more clever about it than they were in ancient times. But the fervent belief in their God-given right to dominate has never left them, even though the vast majority of Israelis today consider themselves to be atheists.
Todays events are just a recycling of ancient conflicts and institutionalized loathing.
Don’t believe me? READ THE BIBLE. It’s all there plain as day.
If it were up to me I wouldn't spend one red CENT on any of these Middle Eastern savages, They are spiritually and emotionally UNEVOLVED. The true God -- who is the embodiment and perfect expression of Love, Truth, Principle, Intelligence, Soul, and Life, itself, the essence of which is Spirit -- revealed everything they needed to achieve peace, prosperity, harmony and joy in living. In the ceaseless quest to achieve Power and Control and to justify wholesale slaughter, destruction and theft, THEY REJECTED IT.
The sooner these ruthless barbarians destroy each other the better off the rest of the world will be.
~ FreeThinke
Trestin's comment is fascinating and I've added it to the post I had up about the assassination of Gadhafi.
"Finn and all, Obama acted within the War Powers Act (you do know that, right?), he moved us over into NATO, perfectly legal and constitutional as the law is today"
Okay Einstein, first, the argument that remotely operating predator drones do not constitute combat operations is specious.
If an American officer at Nellis remotely operating a drone does not constitute combat or an act of war then by the same logic an American officer at Minot remotely operating an ICBM does not constitute combat or an act of war and the President can thus legally and unilaterally nuke someone and not be in violation of the War Powers Resolution.
Furthermore, what do you believe is in the North Atlantic Treaty authorizes this action? Please cite the appropriate article.
Put up or shut up.
"the argument that remotely operating predator drones do not constitute combat operations is specious."
I hadn't seen that comment and don't know who made it but I don't see how ANYBODY can think Finn's wrong about that one.
Z said...
"the argument that remotely operating predator drones do not constitute combat operations is specious."
Specious, at best. A similar argument could be made, and I believe has been made, that by doing so, the President is engaging in political assasinations that have been strictly forbidden, since the mid-70's have they not?
FreeThinke,
I noted your comment above about whether or not God commanded the Israelites to exterminate the Canaanites (not sure that you worded it the way I just have) and think you might want to read THIS. At the least, the article is interesting, particularly as you are presently reading through the Bible as narrative.
Great job on that post, SF well done.
Z: Obama's argument is that the War Powers Act does not apply since the US is not involved in combat operations in Libya.
The White House said that, given the limited nature of the U.S. operation in Libya, congressional authorization wasn’t needed. Mr. Obama told Congress that he directed U.S. air strikes pursuant to his constitutional authority to conduct U.S. foreign relations and as commander in chief.
Why it is okay to parade Gadaffi's body, but we can't release photos of Osama because it will offend Muslims?
---------
Tristan, you don't go out of your way to trash talk and create more of a martyr.
Did we have control over the Qadaffi video? No.
Still, he's a trivial player and one who hadn't been involved in much but making life miserable for Africans trying to establish his pan African union.
Best photo was the cover of the NY Daily News owned by that commie Rupert Murdoch.
Big head shot of dead Qadaffi
Insert photo of kid with Yankees cap: Qadaffi killer - Yankees fan
Headline - Gets more hits than A-Rod.
Have to admit I got a chuckle. But pitch till you win.
I'll say it again Finntann, when it all comes out we will discover this was a covert French operation primarily.
Ducky, I don't care if it was primarily an operation run by Gladys Knight and the Pips. The point is, the predator drone shouldn't have been there and shooting.
Finn, I guess I see killing people as 'combat operations'...
Your comment about Gladys Knight and the Pips has me laughing..good one. (if this was Iran we were talking about, I'd say 'that's close to Georgia, but not THEIR Georgia'...:-)
AOW...I'm in in-depth study (2 months) of Joshua/ your link is exactly right.
PART ONE
Hi, AOW,
Thanks you for the reference from Quartz Hill School of Theology on the religious beliefs and practices of the Canaanites by Mr. Albright.
The article, of course, is scholarly, but I see it as an elaborate rationale determined to vindicate or exonerate the vicious aggressiveness and highly acquisitive nature of the ancient Israelites. Mr. Albright writes from an assumption that, of course, the “God” constantly referenced in the Old Testament is in fact the one, the true and the only God, and that the Jews truly were “Chosen” by “Him” to be the recipients of His” absolute, unquestionable, unimpeachable, eternal and everlasting truth.
Accepting that dubious assumption as fact Mr. Albright then goes on to defame the religious practices of the Canaanites and more other “ites” than I can remember -- the Jebusites, the Jezreelites, the Midianites, the Amonites, the Hittites, the Gebushites, and on and on and on. If we believe the Old Testament account of Semitic history, the Israelites were the only tribal nation that could be considered in any way worthy.
Everyone else was supposedly so vile, so wicked, so utterly depraved that they displeased “God” so much that “He” commanded the leaders of the Israelites to kill them in the most gruesome ways imaginable -- ways that very closely resemble the barbaric cruelty of Islamic fundamentalist methods of punishment today. The resemblance is so close as to be downright eerie.
~ FreeThinke
(CONTINUED)
PART TWO
I’m sorry, AOW, I know this point of view is offensive to Jews and Evangelical Christians, but Mr. Albright in his eagerness to defend “the one true faith” conveniently forgets to acknowledge in his fulminations against all those myriad “ites” who fell victim to the murderous tactics of the Israelites, that the vile behavior Mr. Albright catalogues in the Canaanites is mirrored almost exactly in the equally vile behavior of the Israelites. In fact very little is said about how and it what ways the targets for annihilation deserve to be slaughtered. “God said said so,” is about all we’re given to go on in the Old Testament.
I consider myself a Christian. I am not, however, a JUDAEO-Christian. With the exception of the Ten Commandments, which I believe to be a requisite for the establishment of any decent, just, healthy, productive and humane society, most of what I’ve heard all my life in Church and recently gleaned from a sustained, concentrated reading of the first twelve book of the Old Testament could be nothing but a primitive peoples’ yearning to explain and understand Reality -- and the clever, often ruthless attempts of their leaders to gain and hold power and control over these unruly mobs of barbarians.
As such the ancient stories that most of us have been conditioned from birth to accept as “true” -- without really knowing anything about them -- are in fact preposterous inventions of a nomadic nation of Semites who were just like all the other competing groups in that arid vicinity desperately struggling to find meaning in existence and to find ways to survive in a hostile environment.
I think the Israelites were for the most part innocent victims of circumstances beyond their control -- just like everyone else. That what-appears-to-be their innate tribal temperament led them to rationalize the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children -- and the destruction or theft of their property -- as obedience to the will of “God,” makes them singularly ignoble in my view.
I have been aware of Pelagius for at least twenty years, and find myself in total sympathy with his benign, enlightened view. I am morally certain Pelagius was the victim of a political power play led by Augustine whose austere, life-denying doctrines have been directly responsible for perpetuating a tragic misunderstanding of Christ’s Truth for many centuries.
So YES. I certainly qualify as a heretic, and I’m very glad of it. There is no doubt that I would have been burned at the stake if I had lived in Mediaeval times and my beliefs had been made known. The history of the Church is largely a history of a fatal misunderstanding of Christ’s mission.
Despite all that I am the antithesis of an atheist. The God I worship, however, is a nurturer, a healer and the inspiration for all that is noble, honest, patient, kindhearted, loving, constructive, generous, gracious, beautiful, brilliant -- and sane.
~ FreeThinke
FT, are you really a "Judeo-Christian?"
What is a Judeo-Christian?
You don't ask that. You simply assert that you are.
Well, what the $#@! is a "Judeo-Christian?"
What exactly is your religion?
Jesus has nothing to say about tribal correctness, he doesn't demand anything of anyone but to try to get along and try to do right. Not much to ask of a CIVILIZED person. That's why we love Him. He loved us back.
Get it?
(For Christ's sake, I will NEVER understand the "conservative Christian.")
JMJ
FreeThinke,
I clearly do not share your theological views.
When I was a teenager and studied the Old Testament, I got all hot under the collar about God's orders to exterminate the Canaanite tribes. Back then, BTW, we didn't discuss all the vile practices of the Canaanite religions, particularly in groups with mixed genders. It was only much later that I did any research on the Canaanite religions per se.
Anyway, the Bible study leader at the time pointed out that we are God's creation and He has the right to do as He pleases. It is only by His grace that we have any chance at all not to be sent straight to hell as hell is what we DESERVE (because of our sinful natures and our committing of sin).
Also part of my belief system: the purpose of the Old Testament is to show us our need for Christ, Who redeems us.
I don't believe that the Old Testament exists to justify the doings of the Semitic tribe referred to as the Israelites. Nor do I believe that the Old Testament is an invention of a murderous tribe.
Just as all human beings, the Israelites were flawed. The beauty of God's plan of salvation is that He loved us -- and the Israelites, a "stiff-necked people," enough to offer redemption. Furthermore, God used the Israelites and their generations to bring to us God Incarnate in the form of Jesus Christ.
Based on what you've written in your comments above, I see that we disagree on this topic. I am at peace on a spiritual level; that state of peace convinces me that I have found the truth -- and the Truth.
Simplistic? Maybe. But I've been through my spiritual struggles. Those struggles were put to rest back in 1981 in one clockable moment -- long after I accepted Christ as my Savior at the altar of a local church. I was justified in that moment, but sanctified to a great extent in that moment in 1981. What happened to me that day was so powerful that I don't have the words that will adequately describe the moment: I called out to God in despair, and He silently answered me with the still, small Voice that is inaudible to human ears. I know that the moment was genuine because, some time later, several people said to me, "What happened to you? You're different now than you were in September." Only years later did I tell a few people what had transpired. Now I've said so in a public forum, but I'm not bragging in the least. What happened was not my doing, but rather the Lord's.
Jersey: You say "For Christ's sake, I will NEVER understand the "conservative Christian."
not every Christian you hear or read represents all Christians (or true Christianity at ALL): no more than every Muslim represents all Muslims.
AOW: "What happened was not my doing, but rather the Lord's." It's the Holy Spirit which helps us read Scripture with God's meaning in mind; thanks for your comment. And yes, it's always the Lord's doing, never ours. And it's His great Promise which protects the Israelites and reminds us to protect them now.
Bless your heart, AOW. I appreciate the way you've expressed your disagreement without acrimony and without attacking me personally. I was not joking when I said that in earlier times I would very likely have been a candidate for imprisonment, torture, and execution as a heretic.
I am glad that you have found faith in Christ, and that your faith sustains you.
Certainly God may do whatever He chooses, but since God is perfect, surely He would have found better ways to rid nations of their sinfulness than to use the Israelites to do His dirty work for Him. Ridding the world of vile behavior in one set of tribes by harnessing the equally-sinful, bloodthirsty, licentious, acquisitive nature of another doesn't make any sense.
If God had wanted to exterminate the Canaanites, He could have infected them with a plague, and thus avoided encouraging the Israelites to become wantonly self-righteous in their lust to kill, maim, loot, enslave and destroy.
After all, there's no way anyone but a lawyer could reasonably interpret "Thou shalt not kill" as anything but exactly what it says. I firmly believe that God is the embodiment and perfect expression of Love among other essential spiritual attributes. If that is true, how could it be possible that God would advocate what-we-would-call "genocide" today?
After all, if there is only one God -- and I believe that is true -- the Egyptians and the Canaanites were His children too. A wise and loving father may chide his children and occasionally punish them, but he would never want to exterminate them for misbehavior. Instead he would want to teach and persuade them to act more appropriately.
I've been earnestly searching for God since I was a little boy. Like you I believe He is a vital, absolutely necessary part of my life. Without Him I could do nothing of any value.
My personal view is that Jesus Christ came to tell the Jews how dreadfully wrong they had been since Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden. God spoke Truth to Moses, indeed, but what happened afterward seems a clear demonstration of intransigence -- a willful determination to do the exact opposite of what God had commanded and to use a considerable store of intelligence and ingenuity to develop an elaborate system of rationalization to justify giving way to passion, lust and inappropriate ambition every step of the way.
Jesus what distinctly at odds with the tribal and religious leaders of is time. He openly criticized their ways and expressed contempt for the methods they used in administering temple affairs.
His message was exactly what the Jews of that time did not want to hear. Instead of leading them into yet another long series of murderous battles to achieve ultimate victory over their oppressors, He charged them with the responsibility of looking inward to change radically the way they responded to the behavior of others.
I believe the essence of Christ's message was to tell not only the Jews, but all people that the only hope of overcoming the harshness, insolence and injustice of the world would be to change oneself inwardly. By living our lives -- as individuals -- in such an exemplary fashion as to attract others and provoke profound curiosity in them as to what our Great Secret might be.
You may have done exactly that, AOW. If people notice that you are somehow "different" in a good way, then redemption must have taken place in your heart.
I hope we may be able to agree to disagree on matters of theology, but continue to talk with one another. I always enjoy hearing from you.
~ FreeThinke
PS: I still haven't been able to see The Help, but haven't forgotten your recommendation, and look forward to experiencing it one of these days. As you know, I can't read printed books because of serious eye problems, which also make it difficult for me to get out of the house and explore new territory. I an still drive, but just ... - FT
Jersey,
Your remarks clearly demonstrate that either you have not read my remarks or that you have failed utterly to comprehend them.
I'm not against you, personally, at all, but you seem to believe that because I identify more with Conservatism than with Collectivism, everything I say must, therefore, be wrong and deserves to be categorically rejected without examination.
Honest curiosity is a great virtue. I wish for your sake you'd cultivate a capacity for exercising it.
~ FreeThinke
"... not every Christian you hear or read represents all Christians (or true Christianity at ALL)"
Truer words were never written, Z, but it's obvious that in Jersey's case he neither read nor understood a word I wrote, so he's responding only to his own pre-conceived misconception.
That's all right. I'm used to it; it happens all the time.
Most of us are so self-absorbed and so intent on putting forth our own beliefs and interpretation of the truth we fail to listen to anyone who does not mirror our views with reassuring consistency.
I'm glad you have found "blessed assurance," Z, but assuming that what works for me has to be The Whole Truth, and should, therefore, work for everybody -- and that anybody who doesn't think so is wrong can lead -- as we have seen countless times in history -- to fanaticism, aggression, persecution and wholesale slaughter.
In my view there is no sin greater -- or more deadly dangerous -- than the sin of Self-Righteousness. It's a close kin to the sin of Pride, which often deceives us into equating our personal convictions, feelings and opinions with those of Almighty God.
Somewhere in the scriptures it says, "The haughty shall be humbled." I pray that it be so.
~ FreeThinke
FreeThinke,
The book The Help is available on audio at most public libraries. In fact, I listened to the audio version instead of reading the printed word.
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I appreciate the way you've expressed your disagreement without acrimony and without attacking me personally.
I very rarely resort to personal attacks.
With regard to discussing theology with someone, I would not reflect Christ if I got nasty.
Oh, I can be nasty when discussing other subjects, but never when I discuss matters relating to God.
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After all, if there is only one God -- and I believe that is true -- the Egyptians and the Canaanites were His children too. A wise and loving father may chide his children and occasionally punish them, but he would never want to exterminate them for misbehavior. Instead he would want to teach and persuade them to act more appropriately.
Well, there was the Great Flood.
You do bring up a good matter. Are we His children if we go too far afield from His will and His law?
I believe that all human beings are His creation. It remains a mystery that He creates sinners or those who appear to be predisposed to evil (Charles Manson, for example).
As to why God didn't send a plague upon the Canaanites, I don't have an answer for that.
My father gave me advice that he himself lived by: "I have enough trouble managing my own soul, so I have no business telling others how to manage THEIR soul." Oh, sure, Dad would give his testimony. But he did not sit in judgment over his fellowman with regard to spiritual matters. Furthermore, Dad believed that none of us "have it right" as to theology; he believed that all we could do was walk by the faith we had. He did have clear cut ideas as to how admittance to hell is determined. Again, Dad felt that the matter was God's business -- and not his.
Being a seeker is good! All I can say to you is that you should keep both your mind and your heart open. Faith is more a matter of heart than of mind.
As I said before, I am at peace. That said, I am struggling some since my husband's stroke. I do need to be in a better spiritual place right now, but I haven't lost my faith. I just find it harder to talk with God these days. I have to trust that He understands.
Good to chat with you, FT.
AOW,
I'm sure I would have liked your father very much.
I think Jesus wants us to work at perfecting our own understanding and developing our own character first rather than assume, because we have faith, that we naturally would know what's best for others.
From my point of view you certainly are on the right track if you believe it inappropriate to act belligerently or contemptuously when speaking about God and His Son, Jesus.
I think it's horrific when people let their different understanding of Truth get competitive and clamorous. It never sheds any light and just gets people irate and ugly, which is, itself, ungodly.
I may have told you already, but I understand what you are experiencing with your husband all too well. My father suffered a severe stroke when he was forty-four. I was only twelve. Our lives changed drastically overnight. It was especially hard on my mother. I wish I had been more mature so I could have understood better and not thought so much of myself at the time.
Eventually, my father did recover enough to go back to work, but was never the same again. He lived another twenty-five years with slowly diminishing capacities. After thirteen major hospitalizations, he died at the age of sixty-nine. That was thirty-five years ago, but it still seems like only yesterday.
Mother took her marriage vows seriously and did the right thing in ever-straitening circumstances, but it took a tremendous toll on her. I wish I had had enough understanding to acknowledge more the beauty -- and the sanctity -- of her sacrifice. Being an old-fashioned person of integrity she would not have had it any other way, but I still wish things had gone differently for my parents.
In many ways I am reaping the harvest that rightfully belonged to them, but I could never say i am not grateful. As i grow older I realize more and more how wonderful they really were.
Somehow from the perspective of Eternity I believe everything evens out. I would never want to entertain the belief that God is not just, although He's probably been kinder to me than I properly deserve -- but them, that's not for me to say, it it?
I could never claim to have heard His voice as such, but I am certain that when I talk to Him, He listens -- and I'm positive He has guided me through many treacherous passages and kept me whole. I live alone now, but thanks to the faith I have I never feel that I am alone.
We have a beautiful library here. As soon as I can get downtown, I'll see if I can check out the talking book version of The Help.
I hope you have a good week.
~ FreeThinke
"Do not cooperate with the United States. Dig in. Murder, maim, threaten and brandish chemical and nuclear weapons."
Seems to work for the likes of North Korea, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba etc.
I should add the following from what i've seen - if it's a Republican in power, don't mess with him because he will come after you and unleash the true lethality of the west upon you. Leave him alone and make nice when needed and he'll let you be.
If it's a democrat, the more dangerous and hateful of liberty you are, the better for you. The more stealthily you attack/undermine America, the more he/she will weasel around and largely do nothing.
FreeThinke,
Thank you for sharing that story about your father.
Mr. AOW is compos mentis, after 18 months of brain healing. But it is clear that his physical disabilities will prevent him from ever returning to work. After his brain surgery in 1993 (acoustic neuroma at age 44), which did affect him cognitively, he had to leave a desk job and return to physical labor.
He has been bored out of his mind and very lonely, so, for his birthday, I got him an iPad and set up a blog for him. He is learning the ropes. I plan to teach him how to do his own postings this coming weekend. At the moment, I am his secretary. I don't mind!
You said: From my point of view you certainly are on the right track if you believe it inappropriate to act belligerently or contemptuously when speaking about God and His Son, Jesus.
I will tell you this: I am inundated with self-righteous Christians in the real world (not the virtual world). They are good people, but they piss me off royally when they "instruct" me "for my own good." Pfffft.
I try to follow these instructions: "Let your light shine before me" and "Be ye the salt of the earth." Rewards from behaving that way are rare, but when those rewards become known to me, my soul is uplifted.
From where I sit, AOW, you are very definitely on the right track. Not that I'm competent to judge, mind you.
All I can say is "Keep up the good work." I'll visit your husband's new blog soon.
~ FreeThinke
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