Friday, November 18, 2011

Race to the Bottom

Toure:  Mess NBC Common Tater
If we're going to have a productive discussion on race, we need to drop the generalities and focus in on the specifics

There's been some back and forth over the tiresome issue of racism in America, thanks to the equally-tiresome sexual harassment charges against Herman Cain. 


Diversity Ink blogmeister Malcolm recommended I listen to what Toure had to say.  I didn't want to be combative, Malcolm is a nice guy, but I find Toure shallow, predictable and short on specifics.

I did read his NY Times article, No Such Place as 'Post-Racial America.'  While I agree with the title and some of what's in it, I found it clumsy and liberally sprinkled with hot-button words and phrases as he argues against using...  hot-button words and phrases.  I agree with him that words are abused in order to shut down dialog. I posted on the topic just a few weeks back (Speech Codes are Thought Codes).

He makes some good points when he cautions whites (correctly) that racism is our problem too. He says we have a duty to “interrogate the system,” because even though we may not support racism, we do benefit from it (OK.  How?).

He starts out well, rightly assailing the use of catchall words designed to snuff dialog, and he makes his case for this quite convincingly. The big unfounded assertion he leaves out there is that America is a racist country.
Race and racism are still critical factors in determining what happens and who gets ahead in America.
In what way?  He doesn't say. He continues...
A place where black unemployment is far higher than white unemployment, [...]
Could there be other factors to blame besides race? Could it be that those who are unemployed are unemployable? Without a diploma or job skills?  I keep trying to picture well-dressed, well-educated black people standing around in groups unable to get a job, but I can’t quite manage it.
[...] where profiling and institutional racism and white privilege and myriad other forms of racism still shape so much of life in America.
His credibility would be helped by some actual examples of profiling, institutional racism, white privilege and the myriad other forms of racism. Just playing buzz-word bingo and firing off broad generalities doesn't cut it.  Time to get down to brass tacks and name names.

Toure's Syndrom: A fact-free spasm of guilty white liberal nonsense...

Now I've seen ol' Toure in action, and he gets wound up when egged on by the gape-mouthed, guilty-white leftwing levellers at MSNBC. They eagerly and masochistically accept the bracing flagellations administered by people of color. We're white! We deserve it!

Here's a particularly stinging lash, swung rather broadly...
But it makes you part of the system and reveals why it’s also your responsibility to interrogate and examine how our society works and be aware of the biases that keep white supremacy functioning.
White Supremacy?  Is he serious?  I understand his point, but plastering a broad swath of America with such a fraught term is guaranteed to kill any hoped-for dialog.

This is why there are so many of us white "cowards" the Attorney General complained about awhile back.  Invite me in to dialog, and then start slapping me with the broad brush and hanging labels around my neck?   No thanks.  Life's too short.

See Also:
Hush Rush:  Bigotry Goes Equal Opportunity
Leftwing Hate and Anger

74 comments:

ecc102 said...

This is a conversation I have had way too many times, but I'll throw my final analysis into this mix:

In all my 43 years of life, I have never seen a culture more determined to destroy itself than that of the black liberal Democrats.

Nothing you or I say to Toure will change his mind or remove the yoke of bondage upon his neck, placed there by his own choosing and by the steady diet of victimhood of liberalism.

He will continue to push for hyphenated Americanism, dredging up the slavery of the past as justification for the present, and refuse to become anything other than another Democrat slave suckling at the teats of the very pig that keeps him helpless.

Allen West, Condi Rice, Eric Rush, Herman Cain, Alan Keyes, all labeled as "house negroes" and "Uncle Toms" by the left continue to show us that race is irrelevant to Conservatives.

Coming from German blood, knowing my ancestors didn't touch American soil until the early 1900's, I have no such phantom as "white guilt" haunting my psyche. I owe no black American anything. At all.

I have known poor examples of whites, latinos, blacks, and asians thanks to my military adventures. I could care less for politicized racial victimhood, because I have also seen the best of whites, latinos, blacks, and asians as well.

Our Constitution guarantees us the right to freedom, but it doesn't guarantee us the success of freedom. That comes from within, from a proper self-image, and from a healthy sense of worth.

The Democrat/Socialist Party will never allow black America to succeed. It is much more profitable for them to make sure black America knows their place.

Post-racial America, indeed. One would think with the election of a black American as President, this kind of talk would never need to be engaged in again.

Toure, I'm white. You're black. We're Americans. Deal with it and stop whining like a self-entitled, self-victimized child.

http://ecc102.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/perry-refers-to-cain-as-brother-the-left-cries-raaaaacist/

Mustang said...

Dr. Thomas Sowell reminds us that while it is true white people have behaved rather poorly toward others —by no means has this poor behavior been limited to people with black skin, whites have no monopoly on racist behavior. Perhaps no one is more racist than an Asian is, but we can hardly suggest this isn’t a two-way street when most of our official policy toward Asians offers them poor treatment. We can see racism in the black community, too … Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, and Barack Obama are but a few examples. And let us not forget that while Obama embraced his grandmother’s Marxism, he found her whiteness an assault upon his own sensibilities. We might also suggest that Moslems are racists and homophobes.

I do agree with you that an honest dialogue must avoid buzzwords and skewed history. In the past 4,000 years, historians estimate that twice as many whites were pressed into slavery than blacks. Dr. Sowell tells us that if we wish to rid ourselves of abject racism, we must look to the political left and demand that they stop using black people as pawns in their campaign to divide and conquer; we must demand an end to the myth of white oppression.

You are correct about the issue of unemployment. Rather than attempting to lay blame at the feet of employers, let’s investigate further black community acceptance of poor attitudes about such values as education, honestly, reliability, and commitment. No person, regardless of color, wants to hire someone who is a dumbass, a thief, or unreliable. And we should wonder about prison populations, too … but let’s not begin these investigations with false narratives. People are in jail because they assault, rob, murder, rape, sell drugs, and conspire with others to do wrong, and if there is a disproportionate number of black people in jail, then we should assume that a disproportionate number of black people do such things. Viable solutions have to begin within black communities; Eric Holder might have performed a good service to his country had he not been too cowardly to address, honestly, racial issues in America.

ecc102 said...

@Mustang,

You said:
"People are in jail because they assault, rob, murder, rape, sell drugs, and conspire with others to do wrong, and if there is a disproportionate number of black people in jail, then we should assume that a disproportionate number of black people do such things."
--------------------

No, no, no. Black Americans are purposely jailed by white Americans. It is the easiest way for white America to maintain its stranglehold on black America.

Black America only commits crimes against themselves because of white America. White America gives black America no choice, since white America won't employ black America.

All statistics on incarcerations in America are created by white Americans to make sure black America doesn't move ahead.

It is not black America's fault. It never has been. Black America is the victim here.

White media and entertainment all portray black America as gangsters and thugs and drug dealers. Nevermind the images of our black rappers brandishing guns, money, hoes, and gang signs. Our black rappers are merely the direct reflection of the oppression that white America has put upon us. Besides, without black rappers and black culture, what would white frat boys listen to and emulate?

*sarcasm off*

Jack Camwell said...

Obama is probably not racist. His mother is white, after all . . .

I think a key thing that people forget is that stereotyping is not the same as racism, although I think some people have successfully conned much of society into equating the two ideas.

It's like when everyone cried "racist" at the Transformers 2 movie because 2 of them acted like gangsta rap punks. Forget the fact that there are plenty of people in American society who DO act like that on a daily basis. It's racist because we're making fun of them, right?

But watch any movie that has a predominantly black cast, and see how white people are portrayed in that. But that's not racist, right?

And ecc102 has a great point by bringing up non-whites who have held high positions of power and prestige. It's interesting to note that so far, George W. Bush's cabinet and staff has been the most racially/culturally diverse thus far. But information like that is irrelevant, right? The fact that a black man, excuse me--a mixed person--is president is also irrelevant. Right?

I remember in college some idiot girl that sat behind me in a presidency class got all indignant when someone referred to Obama as black, and she said "he's NOT black. He's mixed. Get it right." Had that been a white person who said that, it would have been an incident. But it was a black girl, so that's all okay.

I'm waiting when all the intelligent peoples of the world will finally come to the conclusion that most people are just plain idiots.

jez said...

"because even though we may not support racism, we do benefit from it (OK. How?)."

Maybe he got that line from Dave Chappelle's interview with James Lipton.
It's probably true, but you're right it would be instructive to be told how.

Silverfiddle said...

I remember in college some idiot girl that sat behind me in a presidency class got all indignant when someone referred to Obama as black, and she said "he's NOT black. He's mixed. Get it right."

Jack: That is a great example of how racial "dialog" is a power trip, and your observation about if a whiter person had said that is right on.

conservativesonfire said...

Bigots have been around as long as mankind. Whites do not have a monopoly on bigotry. Blacks undoubtedly suffered more from bigotry than other races. But it seems that all but blacks have found a way to overcome bigotry. Why is that? Much of it I believe is due to the break down of the family unit in the black community.

Silverfiddle said...

Jez: Exactly! I don't say Toure is lying; I just think he is being lazy. He needs to provide specific examples to give us something to focus on.

For example. There's a guy that used to sell flowers on a street corner and I'd buy from him because it was a quick, convenient way to surprise my wife.

A black coworker shocked me by telling me this flower seller had called him the n-word. I couldn't believe it at first, but my coworker does not have racial hangups and he wouldn't just say something like that, so I stopped patronizing that vendor.

The "institutional racism" charge is the most serious, for me. We have laws against that, so he needs to bring facts so we can address it.

Country Thinker said...

To address one specific point, namely, black unemployment, minimum wage laws were instituted at the behest of white union workers to prevent blacks from taking jobs at wages below union scale. Sadly, minimum wage laws have been one of the most successful policies implemented in this country, with high black unempmloyment, particularly among the young, as a great victory for the union left.

Z said...

SF, you say "Invite me in to dialog, and then start slapping me with the broad brush and hanging labels around my neck?"

I can't tell you how many times that's happened with black bloggers at my place, even black friend bloggers......and it really does NOTHING for any better understanding, that's for sure.

There's almost an unwillingness to stop slapping and broad brushing and that does nothing for 'better understanding' because it always seems to happen just as there's a closer communication happening and it stops it immediately...I don't know a racist, so the whole conversation ticks me off. Stop blaming Whites; open your eyes and stand on your own two feet, that's what my black friends do.
Of course, they're conservatives, so they're used to that :-)

dmarks said...

re: "because even though we may not support racism, we do benefit from it (OK. How?)."

Such a statement about whites is in fact a racist generalization. Like saying that all Jews are rich.

And the statement is so untrue aside from being racist.

Chances are your community has some Ukrainian immigrants. There's a lot of them all over. And yes, they are white. How can anyone with any sense argue that these Ukrainians and their American-born children are beneficiaries of racism? Yet, according to that ignorant and racist statement at the top of this comment, they are.

dmarks said...

Jack said: "Obama is probably not racist. His mother is white, after all . . ."

Perhaps Obama is racist. I have heard him make some statements about supporting actions to redress historical racial injustices.

Typically, this means policies to punish white people because some other whites owned slaves in the American south (stupid and racist, as shown by my Ukrainian example above) or giving people taxpayer money just for having darker skin.

Or terrible policies such as the University of Michigan law school admission which rewards different levels of "points" based on skin color. Pure racism.

In this article, coincidentally from the University of Michigan, has this statement from Obama:

"“I still believe in affirmative action as a means of overcoming both historic and potentially current discrimination, but I think that it can't be a quota system and it can't be something that is simply applied without looking at the whole person, whether that person is black, or white, or Hispanic, male or female,” Obama said. “What we want to do is make sure that people who've been locked out of opportunity are going to be able to walk through those doors of opportunity in the future.”

which does much to imply he's not a racist.

jez said...

dmarks: read the article. Hint: it doesn't say "all white people benefit from racism".

dmarks said...

Jez: I never said it contained that quotation. Wonder what that is in response to?

Jersey McJones said...

Silver, you are not seeing the whole picture when it comes to race. That's why you ask these questions, "Could there be other factors to blame besides race? Could it be that those who are unemployed are unemployable? Without a diploma or job skills? I keep trying to picture well-dressed, well-educated black people standing around in groups unable to get a job, but I can’t quite manage it."

Race plays an important role in who is unemployable, who has a diploma, who is well-educated and dressed nicely.

You don't choose who you're born to. If you are born into the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, if you are born into poor communities, abandoned by White Flight, de-industrialized, ravaged by drugs and violence, you are at a distinct disadvantage in life.

Racism plays a strikingly important role in all this.

It's far more complex than "America is/insn't racist."

JMJ

Silverfiddle said...

I know it's complex Jersey, which is why no one here framed this as a binary "America is/America isn't racist," they way you just did.

We need specifics. Imagine your boss walked by and said to you, "clean it up!"

Is that useful? What did he mean? Your workbench? Your hygiene? The flatbed you used this morning? You don't know, until you ask for specifics, and he tells you he meant the corner of the warehouse where you left the scraps of shipping crates after unpacking some new gear.

So...

@ Jersey: Racism plays a strikingly important role in all this.

How?

Ducky's here said...

Well Silverfiddle, it plays a role because blacks in America are in a uniquely difficult place.

Many work hard but for low pay and after struggling to meet expenses they have nothing to save and no way to create equity.

You may have seen the figures on how much of their equity has been lost due to the housing collapse.

It's all well and good to pull the old just get a job bull but when money is not being invested in your schools or neighborhood it's a long road to goo. One you NEVER traveled but you are quick enough to judge and trot out the old bromides about "freedom of opportunity".

What freaking color is the sky in your world?

Mark Adams said...

"abandoned by White Flight" What the hell is that suppose to mean? So because whites left the cities (Detroit comes to mind after the riots) that that somehow made blacks poor?
I hope that is NOT what you are saying here Jersey.

Ducky's here said...

If you leave an inner city without enough resources for basic functions then you have Detroit.

Whites had the means (and some blacks too) and split. Those they left behind got The Full Ayn Rand.

So I hope you aren't being a blind bigot, Mark.

98ZJUSMC said...

Whites had the means (and some blacks too) and split. Those they left behind got The Full Ayn Rand.

No. Those that got left behind received both barrels of double ought progressive liberal fundamentalism. Nice try.

Not.

Silverfiddle said...

Jersey: "Legacy of racism?"

Blacks are worse off now (divorce, addiction, out of wedlock births, % graduating high school, unemployment, name the statistic) than they were in the first half of the 20th century. So between here and slavery, they were better off until the 1960's. Hmmm...

Silverfiddle said...

Ducky: You and Jersey have said absolutely nothing that does not apply to poor white Americans (or people of any color or ethnicity for that matter).

You've failed to show the racism connection.

I think I'll start calling this Toure's Syndrom: A fact-free spasm of guilty white liberal nonsense...

Mark Adams said...

SO what you are saying is, Ducky that most blacks are dependent on Whites? How racist of you.

No, not a blind bigot. A person in the know, as I lived there for 43 years. When one race threatens another with crime and intimidation, you pack up and move out of a hostile environment, too.

Always On Watch said...

Recommended reading: Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America by John McWhorter.

A black friend of mine recommended the book to me several years ago. Well worth the read.

Finntann said...

"because even though we may not support racism, we do benefit from it (OK. How?)."

Come on the possibility is an easy one. If you are white and competing with a more qualified black candidate for a job and you get hired because you're white because the hiring authority is a racist, you've just benefited from racism. All through no fault of you're own.

I'll admit, it happens.

Of course the reverse is true also. If you are white with a 2100 combined SAT score and a black candidate with a 1300 SAT score gets into a school because of affirmative action, you've just been screwed by racism.

Ducky's here said...

Silverfiddle, was I censored for calling the marine a moron?

Silverfiddle said...

Ducky: I do not censor except for the most pointlessly profane comments. I checked the spam filter and no comments there.

Must have been sucked into the Blooger black hole...

Please continue firing away. We await your latest broadside.

Ducky's here said...

Well I've had a couple disappear. Who knows.

I did speak harshly of 98ZJU because I put out a decent argument and all he had back was "no, it was the liberals fault" or to that effect.

Still don't understand how you can expect growth in a community that has had anyone of substance pack up and leave. You've got a permanent ghetto there and they are showing up more and more. Try Youngstown. Not to the extent of Detroit but they're coming.

This is an example of why a society with an excessive income disparity can become very unhealthy. The social equivalent of a liquidity trap.

Z said...

I'd delete if anybody called a Marine a 'moron'...I don't call it censorship; I call it really bad taste. Oh, and disgusting.

Mark Adams said...

"Still don't understand how you can expect growth in a community that has had anyone of substance pack up and leave."
Carefull Ducky, your racism is showing.
Substance? Are you saying blacks don't have substance.
Here in America we look to ones own ingenuity to be self sustaining, with in their community, which helps bring prosperity to their community and not dependent on others to bring it forth.

Z said...

Mark....good point: "Still don't understand how you can expect growth in a community that has had anyone of substance pack up and leave."
Carefull Ducky, your racism is showing.

The soft bigotry of low expectations, huh?

Jersey McJones said...

Apparently, "racism," at the bottom line for your conservatives, is just some modern zeitgeist of the Left and minorities.

It's not. If you haven't personally seen it in action, then you are lucky (or perhaps oblivious by condition), as racism is as ubiquitous as it is disgusting, and it runs deep and wide through most all human cultures.

Silver, you asked me "How?" If you can't see it, then I couldn't possibly explain it to you. You either haven't observed it, haven't imagined it, or simply refuse to either look at it or think about it.

Is that bliss?

JMJ

Jersey McJones said...

Oh, and Z, that was a sleazy bait 'n switch. You obviously haven't a clue about White Flight and deindustrializtion.

I was born in Brooklyn, moved to Jersey back in the White Flight days when I was small. Then moved from town to town all around the area growing up.

My parents were not so much White Flight as caught up in the cycle.

I know what most of it was about - the blockbusting, the paranoid racists, the old union guys and the new cheap labor. That stuff sticks with you growing up.

It was a vicious cycle with a massive diameter.

And then you go on to yet another cheap bait 'n switch, inferring that somehow helping the people left behind in the old cities is akin to assuming their civil incompetence!

THAT ASSUMPTION WAS THE WHOLE PARANOID RACIST REASON THE FLIGHT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Ducky and I do not assume black people are incompetents. Do you?

JMJ

Ducky's here said...

z, I was referring to wealth.

Once again Mark fails to respond.

Silverfiddle said...

I love how Jersey excuses his own family from hollowing out the neighborhood:

My parents were not so much White Flight as caught up in the cycle.

You're full of crap Jersey. What? Did the Klan ride through Brooklyn, destroying it?

You and Ducky, taking up the white man's burden.

Of course there are racist and bigoted people of all stripes. We are hardwired to identify with our own tribe. I know progressives try to deny that and other bits of human nature, but it's there.


My point her is, Mr Jersey, that it is useless to continue talking in broad generalities. Give us something specific we can work on.

Z said...

JMJ, maybe you could show me where any of my comments did any 'bait and switch'?!! THanks.

Ducky, of course you're talking about wealth...what else? There are blacks with 'substance' who've left, too, Ducky. Blacks with brains and wealth...who've left.

I love when a lefty disagrees and has to say we don't have a clue. No, we just don't agree; big difference.

Mark Adams said...

Ducky, sorry you can't comprehend what I replied to, or maybe it has to do with you staying focused is the issue. I can't help you there, except maybe suggest a little Adderall might be in order. ??

Ducky's here said...

Sorry Silverfiddle, I still live in a real working class neighborhood. English s one of five languages spoken on the street.

It works pretty well. Unlike The Ladies Who Lunch and some of your other readers we don't figure you can just drop a buck in the collection plate and walk away.

I wonder if it's come to Colorado, if not it will. Do you know much about cities like Camden, Paterson, Brockton, Springfield and others all over America or do you figure you just blame the indolent poor and never question whether this is a logical outcome of the current economic power structure.

So we are presenting a case Silverfiddle. The current upward transfer of wealth in America (and elsewhere) can't continue unless you are prepared to accept (I'm not) the blight it causes.
We've been through this and so has Hayek and he admitted toward the end of his life that his free market ideas might fall short.

Bt it's going to be austerity. You, the Baggers and the Ladies Who Lunch will only go so far. If putting a buck in the collection plate isn't enough then screw them.
NOHING must be allowed to disturb your comfort or your sens of privilege.

Silverfiddle said...

Ducky: What has any of that to do with white people discriminating against black people???

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not a member of the privileged class, and I'm worth way less than The Three Million Dollar Man from Massachusetts. I don't even think I've made a total of a million dollars in my entire life.

I too live in a working class neighborhood. I've only heard four languages, so you're one up on me there. We have lots of Hispanics, legal and illegal, Indians who run stores and small restaurants and some Ukrainians who get by driving beer trucks and working for moving companies.

"It" has come to Colorado. Denver to be specific. Their liberalism is turning that once great city into a slum of misery just like the others you mentioned.

Ducky's here said...

What does it have to do with racism? Well, it gives us all an out to shift the issue to a neutral economic issue. Right or wrong, it blunts the racism issue and makes this a class issue. So if we solve some of the economic questions does racism fall away? I think so.

What can I say, Silverfiddle. I pay more in taxes than you make. I'll guarantee that's a fact and you seem to want to support the 9-9-9 to allow me to pay less and shift more on yourself. How should I react to that apparent insanity?

I do volunteer education in my community, I volunteer and contribute to the local food bank. I pay a hefty tax bill. I don't consume much, drive a Saturn with over a 100,000 miles, keep the thermostat at 60 in the winter, no air conditioning, no cell phone, no cable. A lot of my money is in trust for my nieces who lost their father real young.
And if right wingers put me in charge of the Randian world I'd put the fools and their families on the curb with a begging bowl and devote my attention elsewhere. See if the Ladies Who Lunch will donate. That's a fact.

Silverfiddle said...

I'm not criticizing you for being rich, Ducky, far from it.

You just lumped me in with the elite, and I'm not. That's what I was taking issue with.

Liberty and equality of outcome are mutually exclusive. You can't have both.

KP said...

I know plenty about racism. I grew up in a small blue collar town in SoCal. The majority of my junior high school was Mexican. As a white, who played sports and got good grades I was a target. I got harassed and teased everyday and my ass kicked many days; never by one person; always by groups.

Prior to that, my dad was a college basketball coach. He made less than $18,000 a year. He had kids of all races come through our home. When my little brother was four he crawled into the lap of an 18 year old black athlete from Jackson Mississippi. The lad look at my dad and apologized. My dad looked at him and smiled and said "You don't have to feel like that anymore. It's okay."

We were never allowed to entertain racist thoughts. The idea of racism was foreign to my brothers and sisters. I wore hand me downs and couldn’t afford a bike. I started mowing lawns in 6th grade to save up for one.

I didn’t hate the Mexicans for making my life miserable. Instead I tried to change their minds. By the end of high school we were friends. I went off to university to play basketball. There, in the locker room, I felt racism from the blacks on my team. Again, I over came that by being true, honest and loyal to the team and my teammates. I gained their trust.

How did this all play out? My sister married a black man from Texas who came from the home with no dad. He is now an VP with Motorola. My nieces and nephews are black (mixed) as are their children. One married a Mexican. So all three races are represented.

My daughter is engaged to a black man. His dad is black and his mom is white. He is attending USC medical school. My point, for the most part, it’s not about skin color unless you allow it to be. Be bitter or make it better. In all but the worst situations it is an indivduals choice.

Some families allow racism and whoa is me attitudes and some do not.

I gotta be honest. I am so sick and tired of being called a racist by people like Toure I could scream. In five decades I have seen more racism in the black and Hispanic communities then in white communities. Damn it, overcome it! I don’t own a home or anything else but a bike. My wife and I work our asses off like little rats in a cage. I love my family, my daughters, my cousins, my nieces and nephews. It’s a nice, humble life. Until some fucking yahoo calls me racist. I should be more tolerant in my 50s then I was in my 20s. It isn’t happening.

If you call your wife a cheater for two decades you are risking that she has an affair. You risk making your paranoid mind a reality. I am tired of being called a racist for the last 50 years. No I am exhausted. I am not going to become a racist but I am fatigued by turning the other cheek.

Racism exists. Do your best to change it when you see specifics.

Silverfiddle said...

Thanks for the story, KP.

Got your ass kicked when you were a kid? That must have motivated you to be what you are now. I went to your web site. You're a tough guy!

KP said...

A beat down can provide a nudge. As well, like Ducky and many others, I have experienced early death in my family (dad dead when I was 20) as well a child with stage four cancer. Probably provided a bit of angest.

MK said...

For the love of.... you folks elected a black man to be your president. Is that not enough?

Perhaps instead of asking these racist cretins to find some facts which they won't, you should ask them what exactly it will take for them to openly declare that racism against blacks is in the past?

Do whites have to collectively slit their wrists and leave everything they own to blacks?
Do whites have to leave America en masse?
Do whites have to only elect black people to all levels of government?
Do whites have to give 99% of their wages to blacks?
Do whites have to become slaves to blacks?
Do whites have to insist a black person live with them?
Does the color white have to be banned?

Seriously, what the fuck will it take?

ecc102 said...

MK,

You said:
"Seriously, what the fuck will it take?"

If I ever decided to run for President, that would be my campaign slogan. :)

KP said...

It is more than frustrating. WTF? You can disagree with policy. You can be an ideologue. But stop fucking calling sensible white people racist. Find a way to find real racist and call them out. Call out the racist whites, the racist blacks, the racist Hispanics, the racist Asians, the misogynistic, the man haters. Get some consistency. They are not all Republicans and Conservatives.

Here is what is so disturbing to me: when I read an obviously good man who dearly loves his family and works more than expected to support his community talk about kicking a certain political group of people to the curb I think "that is the very definition of bigotry."

That is what I meant when I wrote about political ideology resembling addiction. I don't hate it. I wouldn't kick it to the curb. However, I can't support it.

Z said...

Mk, perfectly said.

ecc, you are hilarious! Perfect campaign slogan :-)

KP...great story, but it breaks my heart to read about that athlete from Mississippi and his feeling he had to apologize. We just don't have racism where I am, so it always stuns me a little.
My niece is almost engaged to a black football player from Ohio who's just been hired by ESPN....very exciting; great guy.
This is all good and the only way we'll get over whatever racism the left feels still exists. My black friends here in L.A. sure don't feel it, or so they tell me, thank God.

The high school where I work is about 1/3 black, 1/3 Asian and Hispanic, and 1/3 white...all the kids hang together in their free time; no cliques.......all bright, lots of scholarships...very poor kids, VERY rich kids. This is the best of America and what America should be and would be if some would stop with the racism condemnations; one doesn't hear about racism at our school unless it's discussed in classes...these kids are PEOPLE, not a COLOR. They put kindness first and respect everyone.

Finntann said...

White guilt:

Fully 3/4 of Southern whites did not even own slaves.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2956.html

The proportion of Southern white families that owned slaves in 1860 was 25-30%

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/quizzes/slave_answers.cfm

That said, my great great grandfather came here in 1842, landing in time for the Philadelphia Nativist Riots and the No-nothing Party.

Despite the sentiment received upon immigrating to this great country, the first generation of my family born in the US fought in the Union Army.

They fought at Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville, Petersburg, Hatcher's Run, Dabney Mill, Five Forks, and Gettysburg.

They fought in the Battle of the Wilderness, Chickahominy, Spotsylvania, Harper's Ferry, Culpeper, Tolopotomy Creek, and Winchester.

They fought in the 80th Pennsylvania Regiment, the 91st, the 117th, and the 183rd.

One, a fine young Captain in the 13th Pennyslvania Cavalry, The Irish Dragoons, was captured in June 1864 in the Battle of Trevillian Station and held prisoner at Andersonville.

Don't talk to me of white guilt, as far as I'm concerned that was washed away by the blood of the 650,000 killed and wounded Union Soldiers who fought and set them free.

Don't lecture me on racism, my mother did a fair job of that seeing that all a racist comment would've earned me growing up was the back of my mother's hand or a mouthful of soap.

I am not so naive as to believe racism doesn't exist, but it is certainly not the majority position among white Americans. I may have a skewed perspective from 25 years in the military, but in that time I met one overtly racist white man (who was drummed out on his ear), and could probably count those who were subtly racist on my fingers.

The most outspoken critic of African-American inner city culture I ever met was a black Chief Master Sergeant from Alabama. Who was the son of a farmer and the decendent of slaves and sharecroppers. He saw their perspective to be pretty much the same as yours, an excuse.

The entire concept of white guilt is and of itself, racist.

Cheers!

Anonymous said...

The only way to prove you're not a racist is to

A. Marry a Negro or a Negress

B. Require your children to marry a person of another race

C. If you're a business owner or director of personnel, alway hire a person of a race other than your own no matter how well qualified.

D. Leave one tenth of your estate to the NAACP, another tenth to UNCF, another tenth to Southern Poverty Law Center, another tenth to the ACLU, another tenth to NOI, and the rest to Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

E. Then commit suicide

Unless and until the white race is annihilated through determined interbreeding with non-whites, racism will continue to flourish.

Those whites who do not adhere to a determined policy of Self Immolation and Annihilation are hypocrites and must be regarded as racists. Racism shall be declared a crime punishable by death.

Mt. Vernon, Monticello and all "historic" reminders of the Era of Shame should be razed, incinerated and ploughed under the sod.

All government buildings and monuments made of white marble or surfaced in white should be painted dark brown.

To end the horror of white oppression we must adopt as our new national motto

NEGRITUDE UEBER ALLES!

Black, Black, Black is the Color of my True Love's Dick will be our new National Anthem

~ FreeThinke

PS: And of course anyone caught talking with a Southern Accent should be arrested, incarcerated and shot dead by firing squad within 24 hours after being apprehended. No trial should be necessary. An accusation by Negro will constitute sufficient proof of evil doing - FT

Finntann said...

I know you were being sarcastic... at least I hope so, but...

There is only one race, the human race.

There are a multitude of white cultures and black cultures, as well as many other variations.

I'm no WASP, 100% Celt...oppressed by WASPs for 800 some years. Take a look at the post icon, a cover from Harpers circa 1876.

Right now, I'm kinda pink... at the end of a good summer I'm more of a coppery brown.

Don't be ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Please! Spare me the sanctimony. It ill becomes you.

It's never been about color as much as it's about behavior, and culture.

There may be only one human race, but its many and varied facets have been at war with one another since Cain slew Abel. There is no unity, no affection, no cohesion -- and little hope -- for humanity as a whole.

For a short while we had something really good going on here, but because it wasn't perfect, the God-damned activists have seen to it that we are busily throwing it all away -- in the name of righteousness yet.

I happen to believe that the Civilization which evolved in Europe and the British Isles under the aegis of Christianity in its many and varied forms has handed us a heritage worth knowing, respecting, revering, preserving and enhancing -- despite its many obvious flaws, blunders and tragic miscalculations.

I'm an upper-middle class, white male of Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Germanic-Roman background -- i.e. a white mutt -- and a proud member of the Bourgeoisie.

I have watched the society into which I was born tear itself to pieces, spit on itself, grind itself under heel and puke all over itself in a misguided campaign to accommodate and give "equality" to "minorities."

It stinks on ice, as we used to say in Brooklyn. The country is turning itself into a shit-caked, piss-soaked, blood-stained battleground for bunch of vicious, ungrateful imbeciles with all the wisdom, intellect, taste, understanding, skill, tact, charm and grace of a bunch of baboons.

If you aren't fed up to the teeth with it, then maybe there's something lacking in you.

~ FreeThinke

Finntann said...

Lol... we are pretty much in agreement.

I am a staunch advocate of Western Civ, note I don't declare myself an apologist.

There is an idiom regarding looking at the world through rose colored glasses, perhaps a more apt phrase to describe many of our contemporaries is "For now we see through a glass, darkly."

Jersey sees white flight as an evil of those fleeing, yet ignores the evil they were fleeing. My family moved from the house my grandmother owned in West Philly to the nearby suburbs. When I was a teenager you'd have gotten shot on that street just for being white.

Ducky in all his marxist glory sees our society as one of keeping people down other than lifting them up higher than before. He sees our system as failed, despite the fact that the poorest decile of Americans are richer than
2/3rds of the worlds population.

Through a glass darkly, when it's obvious we've achieved more than Marx ever has.

Cheers!

Anonymous said...

Yup to all of that, and cheers to you too.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to You and Yours!!!

Enjoying life is the best revenge.

Liberals can't stand it.

~ FT

jez said...

Looks like at this point you're all shaking hands in agreement that racism isn't an issue, in fact it's bad taste to bring it up. After all, Obama right? That proves that noone ever experiences racism. That makes it perfectly fair for ghetto kids, they get the same education, career opportunities and protection under law as all the rest of you, right?
What's it take MK? Yeah, what DOES it take? How racist does the system have to be before you'd condemn it?

jez said...

Dmarks: but that's what you're arguing against in your first comment.

Silverfiddle said...

@ Jez: That proves that noone ever experiences racism.

Of course not. You missed the point. If there is systemic discrimination in the public square, we need to focus in on it and eliminate it or at least punish those sponsoring it.

My point is that just hurling nebulous charges at people does nothing but roil the waters. Lets focus in on specifics, but no one can give me any.

jez said...

SF: I haven't missed your point at all, but your commenters are less nuanced than you. Have you read them?

Silverfiddle said...

Well, nuance ain't all it's cracked up to be. We are rubbed raw by racism charges, and we're sick of it.

jez said...

"We are rubbed raw by racism charges, and we're sick of it."

yeah I know but that doesn't make denial (MK) or singing a song about a black man's willy (free thinke) a level-headed response.

Even if you have a blck president now. We had a female prime minister 30 years ago, but it would take an idiot to believe that we haven't had any sexism since the 80s.

Maybe ghetto kids who feel persecuted by the police are rubbed raw too.

Silverfiddle said...

No disagreement, but I return to my original point, which is that people need to stop slinging around broad generalities and give us specifics we can focus on and make improvements.

No one here has done that. Toure hasn't either, so talking about it becomes a waste of time.

jez said...

I agree with you totally, except to add that in the mean time, the complacency into which your readers lapse deserves as strong a rebuke as the "political correctness gone mad" which they're reacting to.

Silverfiddle said...

It is easy and understandable to lapse into complacency in the absence of concrete evidence.

Anonymous said...

Pish tosh and prittle prattle!

Succinctly translated that means NUTZ!

Go marry a Negress, Jez!, and have lots of little brown babies to add to Britain's already over crowded, over-burdened Welfare rolls. That ought to salve your insufferably smug, self-righteous, condescending conscience.

Better yet, go preach Liberalism to the Mullahs in Iran. I'm sure they'll be highly receptive to your h-so enlightened brand of thinking.

If anyone could make the world safe for Israel by neutralizing the hatred that is the foundation for The Ethos of the Middle East, surely it would be you.

Go for it! You're wasting your rare and precious talents here.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

Pish tosh and prittle prattle!

Succinctly translated that means NUTZ!

Go marry a Negress, Jez!, and have lots of little brown babies to add to Britain's already over crowded, over-burdened Welfare rolls. That ought to salve your insufferably smug, self-righteous, condescending conscience. Whatever helps sink the once good ship Britannia must be morally right, of course.

Better yet, go preach Liberalism to the Mullahs in Iran. I'm sure they'll be highly receptive to your oh-so enlightened brand of thinking.

If anyone could make the world safe for Israel by neutralizing the hatred that is the foundation for The Ethos of the Middle East, surely it would be you.

Go for it! You're wasting your rare and precious talents on a fractious bunch of recalcitrant reactionary reprobates like us.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

God only know why that posted twice.

Sorry. Once was more than enough, I'm sure.

The liberal types doctrinaire
May imagine their thinking is fair
But their souls have been lost
By not counting the cost
As their rhetoric poisons the air.



~ FreeThinke

Finntann said...

Jez, the point isn't that racism doesn't exist, but that racism as a state sponsored institution is dead.

There will always be racists, you can't legislate them out of existance. 99% of us could join arms and sing Kumbaya and there would still be white supremacist groups out there.

Jersey looks back on "white flight" and sees racism as the cause(his family excepted of course), whereas I look back on white flight and see burglary, robbery, purse-snatchings, muggings, and vandalism as the cause. Who knows, perhaps Jersey's family was one of the first out and didn't experience the other side effects of neighborhood integration in the 70's.

The key question is at what point are the sins of the fathers no longer visited upon the sons.

You can be 100% opposed to racism and 100% opposed to affirmative action, the points are not mutually exclusive.



Cheers!

dmarks said...

Finn said; "Jez, the point isn't that racism doesn't exist, but that racism as a state sponsored institution is dead."

Racism as a state sponsored institution is alive and well, thanks to liberals. Look at any quota-based affirmative action policy in place in government. By which the government punishes people for having the wrong skin color. The modern version of Jim Crow, which was also state-sponsored.

dmarks said...

"You can be 100% opposed to racism and 100% opposed to affirmative action, the points are not mutually exclusive."

If you support affirmative action, then you support racism.

jez said...

Already married, Free Thinke. And, since you're convinced it matters, already brown.

You're correct, once was more than enough.

Finntann: "racism as a state sponsored institution is dead."

Not certain that's true. I'm reluctant to get into specifics because I lack the local knowledge to your country, but in the UK, the metropolitan police and the press have been charged (with evidence) of institutional racism as recently as 1999 and 2010. Are you confident that all the equivalent bodies in America are better behaved in this regard?

But even if it is true,
a) disorganised and uncoordinated pockets of racism can plausibly have a big impact, it doesn't have to be state sponsored; and
b) it's possible that our generation has inherited a certain amount of racial disadvantage just through cultural entrenchment.

"The key question is at what point are the sins of the fathers no longer visited upon the sons."

True indeed. Also, at what point should the spoils of the fathers' crimes no longer be inherited by their sons?
Or, at what point should the indignities visited upon the fathers stop being inherited by their sons?

"You can be 100% opposed to racism and 100% opposed to affirmative action, the points are not mutually exclusive."

Agreed.

dmarks: "If you support affirmative action, then you support racism."

Almost agreed, but not quite. In certain limited domains (eg. hiring catholic police officers in Northern Ireland) positive discrimination is an important ingredient in the peace process.

Ideally, I prefer blind recruitment to affirmative action. Where sensible, interviews should be anonymous and of unknown colour, gender, age etc. It's often not sensible, I know, but it has worked well in practice in some cases, eg. blind auditions at some professional orchestras (recruitment of women rose significantly).

Malcolm said...

I’m glad I stumbled upon this post. By the way, thanks for linking to my blog.

As on point as I think Toure’s article was, it would have been better if he’d provided specifics. Maybe he was under the assumption that it’s unfathomable for Americans not to realize that race is still a problem in this country. At any rate, I’ve provided some specifics below.

The following story is an example of how whites benefit from racism. It also illustrates that blacks with college educations aren’t immune from the black unemployment problem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html

Here are some other examples of racism in this country over the last few years…

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/kentucky-church-bans-interracial-couples/story?id=15065204#.TtgN-FbNlGU

Black Kids Get Kicked Out Of Pool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efMP45R-Wis

Black Valedictorian denied top spot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsU-yIvGsDI

Growth of white supremacist/hate groups:

http://www.theroot.com/views/white-supremacists-hate-groups-rising

By the way, are you saying that Atty. General Eric Holder was referring to whites only when he said we’re a nation of cowards? Also, I wonder if when Toure cited the continuance of “white supremacy”, he was using the term in the same manner as when Bill O’Reilly referred to “the white Christian male power structure” in this country.

Malcolm said...

Silverfiddle: I hope that you and yours had a joyous holiday season.

I'm wondering if you or anyone else here has a response to the specifics I listed regarding racism in this country.

Silverfiddle said...

As you can see, the thread is dead, and I never alleged that there was no racism in America. The point of this post was to criticize Toure for a lack of specifics.

You did provide specifics, which should surprise no one, since bigotry will never be eradicated. So, what is the solution?

Malcolm said...

My original comment was only two weeks after the post. I didn't realize I had to weigh in within a certain time frame. :-)

Although I agree with you about bigotry never being eradicated, I think these two practices will help alleviate the problem.

1. When racism does occur, the deniers need to face facts that the problem still exists.

2. The cowards that Atty. General Eric Holder mentioned shouldn't be so afraid to discuss race relations.

If you disagree with my solutions, feel free to include any ideas you have that will help.