Friday, March 16, 2012

Footloose in Iraq

News from Baghdad that "young men in tight T-shirts and skinny jeans are being beaten to death with cement blocks and dumped in the streets” is now coming to light in the West.

We took out Saddam Hussein, the Arab firewall containing the Persians, and the Iraqis are celebrating their freedom by bombing Christians out of their churches and killing gays.

AP News and the New York Times report that gays, emos, and others who do not conform the the Islamist straightjacket are being targeted and killed.
"We warn in the strongest terms to every male and female debauchee," the Shiite militia hit list says. "If you do not stop this dirty act within four days, then the punishment of God will fall on you at the hands of Mujahideen." (AP News)
A cynic observes the constant chaos in the Middle East, interrupted only by tyranny, and observes that some people just need a dictator. I also wonder who is crazier, the people who live there, or westerners who crash in thinking they can make a difference?

When Self-Expression is Lethal

If Hollywood were not stilted and braindead, it would have remade “Footloose” in Iraq, focusing on its Emo community. To be gay, Christian, or emo, are all genuine human rights, and their expression springs from the human soul. Those dead young men were only trying to live their lives as they saw fit. They were not harming anyone but the haters who are so insecure in their faith that they must murder all nonconformist threats to it...
But over the past month, threatening letters began appearing in Shiite neighborhoods across Baghdad, residents said.
One of the fliers, scanned and posted online, addresses dozens of gay men by name and nickname. It warns people identified as Japanese Haider, Allawi the Bra, Mohammed the Flower and others: Reform your behavior, stop being gay, or face deadly consequences. 
“Your fate will be death if you don’t quit doing this,” one leaflet warns. “Punishment will be tougher and tougher, you gays. Don’t be like the people of Lot.”
Another flier circulating around the Zayouna neighborhood appears addressed to emo youths. It tells them to cut their hair, not to wear the clothing of devil worshipers, and not to listen to metal, emo or rap music. And if they refuse, “God’s punishment will be come down upon you,” the letter says. (NY Times)
It took them killing gays for the New York Times to wake up. Yes, they reported on Christian killings, but it took the killing of gays to change the tone and tenor of their reporting.  Regardless, I am glad the press is reporting this.  It is a gruesome human rights violation.

At what point will liberals realize that the Islamist fetish is not compatible with the gay one?

At some point, and perhaps this is one of them, they will have to drop one for the other. The choice is clear: Being gay is a legitimate exercise of ones rights; being a self-proclaimed Flaming Sword of God who murders others is a grotesque stain upon humanity.  I understand the gossamer optimism at the first whiff of the Arab Spring, but Islamists (as opposed to everyday Muslims) lurk, and too many people too easily fall under their sway.

This and other sad episodes remind us of the sad fact that we cannot change other societies, and we should stop trying. The soldier who snapped and murdered those Afghans shows us that such chimeric pursuits can end up killing our own souls. 

63 comments:

jez said...

"At what point will liberals realize that the Islamist fetish is not compatible with the gay one?"

I hold a fetish (your choice of noun) for neither, but I have do have one for freedom. That fetish informs my requirement for religions of whatever phylum to be of a tolerant and thoughtful order, not a belligerent one. There exist non-problematic orders within Islam. This is an opinion you share, I believe.

Are there any real-life liberals who hold an Islamist fetish?

Silverfiddle said...

Jez:

We have people in this country screaming themselves hoarse over the prospect of a rightwingtheocracy! but who brook no criticism whatsoever of Islam, to the point of defending noisy islamists who ban speech and cartoons.

Note that I do make a distinction between Muslims and Islamists. Unlike many of my fellow Right Blogistanis, I do not condemn whole religions or cast aspersions upon people for their beliefs.

jez said...

"screaming themselves hoarse over the prospect of a rightwingtheocracy!"

fair enough, I don't want one either. (and for us, a christian theocracy is a more present danger than an islamic one).

"but who brook no criticism whatsoever of Islam, to the point of defending noisy islamists who ban speech and cartoons."

Wow, genuinely news to me. Would this include eg. any of the liberals who comment here?

Anonymous said...

SIXTEEN MILLION MEN

I am singing to you
Soft as a man with a dead child speaks;
Hard as a man in handcuffs,
Held where he cannot move:

Under the sun
Are sixteen million men,
Chosen for shining teeth,
Sharp eyes, hard legs,
And a running of young warm blood in their wrists.

And a red juice runs on the green grass;
And a red juice soaks the dark soil.
And the sixteen million are killing … and killing and killing.

I never forget them day or night:
They beat on my head for memory of them;
They pound on my heart and I cry back to them,
To their homes and families, dreams and games.

I wake in the night and smell the trenches,
And hear the low stir of sleepers in lines ––
Sixteen million sleepers and pickets in the dark:
Some of them long sleepers for always,

Some of them tumbling to sleep to-morrow for always,
Fixed in the drag of the world’s heartbreak,
Eating and drinking, toiling … on a long job of killing.
Sixteen million men.


~ Carl Sandburg from "Chicago Poems"


Bloodlust is universal -- part of who human beings are. We are all hard-wired to fear, hate and kill -- SOMETHING. We need enemies as plants need the sun in order thrive.

The more civilized of or kind strive to resist, thwart and abandon this primal urge, but in attempting to elevate themselves to a Higher Realm of Consciousness hoping to achieve Holiness these rare segments of the world population render themselves vulnerable, weak, defenseless, and because they are perceived as thinking themselves superior to the rest, inevitably they attract violence and are either overrun and annihilated or forced to become brutal, themselves, in order to try to protect themselves and their loved ones from relentless assault.

It happens EVERYWHERE.

LIFE'S A BITCH, and THEN YOU DIE.

Anyone care to refute that allegation?

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

Jez, have you read Londonistan by Melanie Philips?

Do you, perhaps, regard it as nothing more than Jewish propaganda designed to help panic the West into defending Israel?

Just curious ...

~ FreeThinke

Always On Watch said...

Silverfiddle commented:

We have people in this country screaming themselves hoarse over the prospect of a rightwingtheocracy! but who brook no criticism whatsoever of Islam, to the point of defending noisy islamists who ban speech and cartoons.

Never expect logical consistency from the Left.

I guess that it comes down to the following: no free speech for anyone except Leftists and fundamental mohammedans.

jez said...

FT: no, I haven't read it. I do hear MP frequently on the radio, she hasn't greatly offended me though I haven't paid her special attention.

Silverfiddle said...

Jez: I won't throw any rocks at anyone here. I'm thinking more of the submissive self-censorship sponsored by those who mislabel themselves liberal, especially in the wake of the manufactured cartoon controversy.

The horrible acts of Timothy McVeigh and Gerald Laughner, neither of whom were Christian, are nonetheless chalked up to rightwingchristianity somehow, while the multifarious explosions, burnings, beheadings and rioting by Islamists is somehow always chalked up to societal factors, etc...

Ducky's here said...

@Silverfiddle --We have people in this country screaming themselves hoarse over the prospect of a rightwingtheocracy! but who brook no criticism whatsoever of Islam

----------

You're full of shit.

I favor serious criticism of ALL fundamentalism. Fundamentalists are a constant danger.

Sometimes they can evolve, sometimes they can be contained.

jez said...

Silverfiddle: sounds like it's a question of emphasis. Could be that you watch liberals combating a prevailing view that errs on the anti-muslim side, and take their remarks as a pure and complete announcement of their opinion. It's not: I think they're tailoring their rhetoric to the local context and (over?) compensating for the prevailing errors.

I can't name any liberal who backed eg. banning cartoons.
(although I can name people who said those particular cartoons were rubbish, which I agree.)

Silverfiddle said...

@Ducky: "I favor serious criticism of ALL fundamentalism. Fundamentalists are a constant danger.

Sometimes they can evolve, sometimes they can be contained."


I'll surprise you by agreeing with you, with a few caveats. People can be as fundamental as they want to be, so long as they don't violate the rights of others.

Fundamentalists can enter government so long as they conform their official actions to the US Constitution.

This points out the danger of capacious clauses and panoplies of penumbras. What one group carves out for good, another group can use for bad.

Can you at least see where I'm coming from?

Ducky's here said...

@Silver - I'll surprise you by agreeing with you, with a few caveats. People can be as fundamental as they want to be, so long as they don't violate the rights of others.

---------

Absolutely.

I know that is your position but you do seem to have a tendency to lump all Muslims as fundamentalists. Clearly not the case, especially Muslims in America.

-FJ said...

I favor serious criticism of ALL fundamentalism. Fundamentalists are a constant danger.

Especially those of the so-called "liberal" persuasion...

-FJ said...

...."universal" human rights. Just who's chain do they (liberals) think they're REALLY pulling? There's is only ONE inalianable right that I'm aware of, and "life" and "liberty" aren't two of them.

Jim at Conservatives on Fire said...

The only "human rights" people have are those they can keep their governments from taking away.

Always On Watch said...

Jim,
Quote of the day! IMO.

Bunkerville said...

We need to get off our bandwagon that everyone can and wants to be like us. People do not want to starve to death, other than that, what they want is culturally defined I do believe.

Silverfiddle said...

@Ducky: but you do seem to have a tendency to lump all Muslims as fundamentalists. Clearly not the case, especially Muslims in America.

I plead guilty to occasionally lapsing into that, less so lately I hope. I'm still not a fan of Islam, but so long as people respect the rights of others and don't demand special treatment, it's all good.

That is why I used the term "islamist" instead of "Muslim."

I also agree with your comment about American Muslims.

Fredd said...

I completely agree. Just leave these cultures alone, let them stew, fester and boil in their own blood, just as long as they don't export their demons to us and our allies. If they do, then all bets are off, we deal with these attacks with the full force of the U.S. military.

If they want to sell us some oil, great. If not, fine. I just don't recommend anyone plan a Falujah getaway anytime soon.

Anonymous said...

"I also agree with your comment about American Muslims."

TAKEEYA! TAKEEYA! TAKEEYA!

DON'T FORGET TAKEEYA!


~ FT

Anonymous said...

And try not to forget that if you don't distrust, dislike and shy away from Muslims, you are bound to be categorized as ANTI-SEMITIC.

Some people truly believe that "The friend of my enemy is my ENEMY."

'Tis a dangerous world we live in. f you don't "get it" from one element, you're bound to "get it" from another.

It's impossible to maintain neutrality in a world filled with warring splinter factions all of whom nurse pet hates with an air of self-righteousness bordering on mania.

That's why we should have heeded George Washington's sound advice to "avoid foreign entanglements."

We are NOT our brothers' KEEPERS.

~ FreeThinke

Finntann said...

"and for us, a christian theocracy is a more present danger than an islamic one"

Uh...yeah, right.

I think either are highly unlikely.

The opposition likes using "theocracy" as a touchpoint with the dumbasses who actually think they're at risk of one, exploiting bias and prejudice for votes. They said the same of JFK in the 60's.

Rick Santorum has no more chance, prboably less, of pulling off a Theocracy than Barack Obama has of actually implementing Socialism.

Cheers!

Anonymous said...

"Rick Santorum has no more chance, prboably less, of pulling off a Theocracy than Barack Obama has of actually implementing Socialism."

Um, I hate to be the one to tell you of all people, but we were well on our way to becoming a Socialist Republik the day we adopted The New Deal. The Income tax initiated twenty years before was the first giant step in that direction. That and the formation of the Federal Reserve which is unaccountable to The People and has served to CENTRALIZE Fiscal Control.

Even before Wilson TR usurped power, ignored the Constitution and ated as a virtual DICTATOR in seizng lands without authorization to establish our system of National Parks. TR remains a beloved figure, because most of us LIKED the RESULTS of his unauthorized power plays. but, if the ends NEVER justify the means, as we seem to want to believe, then TR acted more as a King than a president.

So, of course did Lincoln, Wilson and FDR. So what's happening today is hardly without precedent.

It's just the first time it's ever been done by a NEGRO -- and Boy! does that make it "special" to Liberals who are without a shadow of a doubt the most "race conscious" people on earth. In fact they are OBSESSED with 'race," because outraged cries of "racism" have functioned as the root of their death grip on power.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

Silver, for my part, as long as the word is Islamist or even better militant Islamist, then I certainly will not argue against comments.

Militant and radical Islamists are really the greatest problem of the beginning of the 21st century for most part of the world. Even more so those that live in the West. They abuse the good will, hard-earned freedoms that we built and then milk the overly liberal and socialist concepts of rights and liberty.

What I find ironic every time is the stereotyping of Islam that life is the same in every location and that Muslims in the west represent the Muslim world as a total. They most certainly do not and they are a breed amongst themselves. You have Islamists in the West demanding the Queen cover her hair, alcohol to be banned in supermarkets and pork to be no longer sold, and yet say in Morocco the King's wife does not cover up her hair, alcohol is available in the main supermarket chains and they sell pork in a clearly marked shelf in that same supermarket. The government there is technically "Islamist" as well, but then there are many varients of that term. You will find similar in Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and even Egypt - yes even there.

This actual topic about attacks on Gay men and incorrect use of the word "emo" is an example of one group attempting to excert power over the population. Ayatollah Sistani, the leading Shiite figure in that country condemned it but was ignored, something impossible say in Iran. In Morocco, technically speaking homosexual acts is an offence but almost never used unless "grossly overt in public causing distress to others".

Do not forget though, the plight of gays and lesibians in many conservative Christian countries in Africa, from attempts to make it a "capital offence" in Uganda to the police and judiciary putting a blind eye to "correctional rape" of lesbians in South Africa (as highlighted recently on a number of major television chains - CNN and Skjp).

Damien Charles

Ducky's here said...

... from attempts to make it a "capital offence" in Uganda

----------

Ah, Rick Warren's pet cause. The purpose driven bigot.

Not our greatest moment.

Ducky's here said...

Rick Santorum couldn't get elected even if the bodies of dead hookers were found outside the Oval Office.

Anonymous said...

Islamic Tactics of Taqqiya teaches Muslims to practise Deception , Fraud & Double Standards to spread Islam

Reader comment on item:

In 1796, U.S. Vowed Friendliness With Islam
in response to reader comment: How about Muslim intentions?

Submitted by Boura (India), Nov 9, 2006 at 22:11

Islamic Tactics of Taqqiya teaches Muslims to practise Deception, Fraud & Double Standards to spread Islam :-

Whatever US may do to help Muslims and Arabs , they will always blame America for their problems.

Muslims always use double standards to cheat Non Muslims.

Even Koran Teaches the Islamic Tactics of Taqqiya which allows muslims to use deception to spread Islam.

Oil Rich Gulf Muslim countries are spreading their money on buying latest Military hardware , F-16 , Machine guns , War ships and offcourse secret program to build nuclear weapons.

This enormous amount of money and resources could be used to resettle " so called Palestinian Muslim Brethren " in the empty lands of Sinai desert ( Egypt) or in Rub al Khali area of Saudi Arabia .

Arabs will pay and reward to families of suicide bombers but they are not willing to invest in modern & carrer oriented education in middle east. and the education which is provided by Saudi Funded Wahabi Schools and seminraies will only help muslim children to become Suicide Bombers , Terrorists , Murderers or Clerics.

Wahabi Islam / Militant Islam / Jihadist Islam / Radical Islam is infact mainstream Islam which is practised or atleast supported by 99 % of Muslims in the world. so Islam is Islam and its dangerous , there is no sense in fooling ourselves by classifying Islam into categories.

A Time will come when West (or in fact rest of the world) will have to collide with Islam head on.

There will be no more options left .

Remember the fact that Islam and Freedom cannot coexist peacefully.

Islam is biggest threat to humanity and its more dangerous than Hitler led Nazi Germany or Stalin led Soviet Union.

We have to realise and prepare to fight and win the long war against Islam.

~ Daniel Pipes

Submitted by FreeThinke

viburnum said...

DC: " They most certainly do not and they are a breed amongst themselves."

While I agree for the most part, the issue seems to be that one never hears of any great hue and cry against these outrages, or note any great movement to put a stop to them. The vast 'silent majority' of Islam seems to be looking the other way and doing nothing to police the ranks of their coreligionists. While terrorists may operate clandestinely until some notable event takes place, these acts are being committed largely in public, or at least for public consumption.

Bludgeoning someone to death one limb at a time with concrete blocks makes noise. They can't all be playing Monopoly.

Anonymous said...

"one never hears of any great hue and cry against these outrages, or note any great movement to put a stop to them. The vast 'silent majority' of Islam seems to be looking the other way and doing nothing to police the ranks of their coreligionists."

Egg-ZACK-Lee!!!

That's the CRUX of it, Viburnum. Those people CAN'T be trusted. You can never REALLY know what they are thinking and planning to do. The skilled practice of DECEIT and TREACHERY are part of their CREED -- APPROVED by the tenets of their faith.

Why take chances? As we all should know by now, even our OWN kind can be very two-faced.

Our on desire to be decent and five the benefit of the doubt could well prove to be our undoing.

ISLAM is INCOMPATIBLE with LIBERTY.


~ FreeThinke

Right Wing Theocrat said...

"At what point will liberals realize that the Islamist fetish is not compatible with the gay one?"

I suspect they know this, they're just using the islamists in their fight against Christianity and vice versa. They probably think that they can jettison the islamists when the time is right and they've outlived their usefulness.

We'll see if that ever comes to pass.

Ducky's here said...

Freethinker --- you're not a very good Islamic scholar.

Stop rehashing the same old bullshit that Micheal Whiner (aka Savage (LMFAO)) pushes on rabies radio and the informed might not realize so quickly how shallow you are.

Ducky's here said...

viburnum --- when was the last time we had a Muslim attack in a Western nation. Been quiet for years. So quiet that in America all the FBI can do to keep those homeland security dollars flowing is entrap the occasional youth.

In Islamic states it's certainly tough to evolve and in fact many have.

Qatar ain't Afghanistan.

viburnum said...

Ducky: "So quiet that in America all the FBI can do to keep those homeland security dollars flowing is entrap the occasional youth."

So we should hold their success against them? There was an arrest here in Philly this week of someone connected to a terrorist group.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/142878035.html

I'd kind of prefer they didn't wait until he walked into Independence Hall on the Fourth of July dressed in Semtex.

Ducky's here said...

He's sending money to Uzbekistan.

Couple guys want to jungle clip an AK and spray a shopping mall, they can do it tomorrow. Our animosity towards Muslims will increase the possibility.

I think the dangerous ones know how to lay low. You can recruit the "B" team with no intent to be successful, have him burns his nuts off and succeed in jamming up air transport even more.

The ones that really want t do damage will ignore planes for trains.

dmarks said...

For many years, Iraqis were raised socialist (a might-makes right, obsessed with materialism and gratification ideology), and with this comes a brutal disregard for civilized values.

viburnum said...

Ducky: "He's sending money to Uzbekistan"

Yes. To a group who's already staged attacks on public places there and 2 embassies, death toll 47. And he's apparently expressed an desire to join in the fun.

The 'B' team perhaps but when fishing you hook what you can. What's the alternative? If we could persuade them all to put on uniforms and come out in the desert it would all be over in an afternoon, and without any collateral damage. It's their choice to remain militant Islamist fish in a sea of innocent Muslims. Think there's a copy of The Little Red Book next to their Qur'an?

Always On Watch said...

Duck,
when was the last time we had a Muslim attack in a Western nation. Been quiet for years.

Care to specify exactly HOW MANY years?

Always On Watch said...

We can distinguish all we like between fundamentalist Muslims and moderate Muslims. But do the moderate Muslims have their own separate mosques, where Wahhabist imams are not spouting hate?

Anonymous said...

"(a might-makes right, obsessed with materialism and gratification ideology), and with this comes a brutal disregard for civilized values."

With all due respect that sounds perilously close to the barbarous carryings on chronicled, celebrated and even glorified in our Old Testament.

I think a point we might want to draw is that while most of the Islamic World appears mired in ignorance and poverty informed by a primitive barbaric mentality, the West long ago moved onward and upward under the aegis of Jesus Christ to reach heights of material advancement and enlightened humane thinking undreamt of by the ancients.

Unfortunately, in having allowed ourselves to be seduced by a malignant, envy-inspired, materialistic, pseudo-idealistic philosophy called Marxism we have turned away from God, as revealed in the Personhood of Jesus Christ, and are busily regressing towards the same old dog-eat-dog primitivism from which we had all-too-recently begun to escape.

Hatred coming at us from every angle seems to be at an all-time high.

IF we Christians, so called, were true to Our Lord and Savior, we would not join the Hatefest, but instead -- as Lord Jesus instructed -- "overcome evil with good" instead of letting ourselves be swept away by evil.

Not hating our enemies, however, does not mean that we should not recognize them for what they are. Awareness of Truth -- however unflattering and disturbing -- is the beginning of Wisdom, and only through acquiring Wisdom and Understanding could we hope to advance towards Peace and Concord.

Permitting oneself and one's children to be "conditioned" to accept malignancy as just another facet of normality is the direct opposite of acquiring Wisdom.

Ye shall now the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free.

Our job is to learn and discover the difference between Truth and Falsehood -- no small task.

"Facts" are not Truth. Facts are to Truth what tiny fragments of colored stone are to a mosaic.

~ FreeThinke

Ducky's here said...

dmarks, how do you use the term materialism?

In he classic sense the enlightenment was based on materialism. Or maybe you don't find Newtonian physics useful.

Anyway, you seemed confused.

Go look for Wahabis under the bed with AOW.

Z said...

Ducky, I don't at all admire Rick Warren, but could you link to how he advocated for making being gay an offense anywhere in this world? thanks.


Silverfiddle...I usually use "Islamist", too, but I will say I'm tired of hearing conversations about how one can't label all Muslims negatively for the sins of "a few"...
First of all, since terrorism, it might only take ONE to REALLY ruin our day (and our lives).

Secondly, when a nut kills someone and he (maybe 20 years ago) taught Sunday School, he's labeled CHRISTIAN, you know that.
It's astonishing to me that we need to be so careful about anything we say against Muslims but NO PROBLEM how we attach labels to any Christian.

Z said...

OH, darn...your trash can feature isn't working...can't scroll down to DELETE!
ANyway, what I meant above is, of course, the hypocrisy of not labeling "all Muslims" while it's so easy to label "All Christian" is what bothers me.
I certainly know that not ALL MUSLIMS want to perpetrate any form of terror on anyone.

beamish said...

My own biological sister is a convert to Islam. Her husband is also Muslim. The child growing in her womb right now will likely be Muslim.

I love them all. 'Nuff said.

Silverfiddle said...

FreeThinke mentioned Takiyya, and that concept combined with our vast cultural differences should inform our immigration policy.

Having said that, I think the success of Muslims in this country argues for Damien Charles' insistence that it's the culture, not the religion.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Culture and religion inform one another, but someone's got to answer the question of why we don't see the dysfunction here among Muslims that we do see in other areas of the world.

My own answer, completely unmoored from anything other than anecdotal information I've picked up, seems to be that Muslims who come here are escaping the dysfunction and seem to appreciate being able to worship (or not) freely and without all the freakshow stuff that goes on where they came from.

Z said...

"Muslims who come here are escaping the dysfunction and seem to appreciate being able to worship (or not) freely and without all the freakshow stuff that goes on where they came from"

For many, that might be true. SO many of us just wish those muslims would speak out in droves... Odd that so many think the West should constantly keep on its toes about not hurting muslim feelings when, really, I think it's up to the majority of good muslims to put OUR minds at rest after what's happened and been threatened.


SILVERFIDDLE: How much of a threat do you think it will be to the West if/when we do leave Afghanistan and the Taliban gears up again?

And Kharzai's so ugly toward us lately; I'd have thought he needs us so that he can remain the King of the Hill ..unless he's in cahoots with the Taliban? What do you think?

Silverfiddle said...

Of course Karzai is in cahoots with the Taliban. He was our channel to the pre-911. Now he and they conspire to keep the Uncle Sam Gravy train running. We are fools.

No, they won't be a threat to us after we leave. We are vigilant in a way we were not on 911.

We will lose the ability to "reach out and touch someone" in that part of the world once we have no bases. The armchair generals discuss strategy, the real ones focus on logistics.

Z said...

If I were Europe, I'd be more worried about our not having bases in that area than we are.

I do think that that region could become a hotbed threatening to us, what with rogue nutcases, nukes and dirty bombs, etc..... I suppose, given enough time without worrying about us, they could be a threat.

I'm going to just hope you're right. You have way more information and experience than I do. Thanks.

Ducky's here said...

Fundies; America's finest


I thought this was common knowledge, z.

Ducky's here said...

Secondly, when a nut kills someone and he (maybe 20 years ago) taught Sunday School, he's labeled CHRISTIAN, you know that.

------------
While I am in sympathy with your point, z, the fringe right's willingness to condemn all of Islam whenever a Muslim goes nuts means you get the same treatment.

Unfair? Absolutely but those are the rules.

Anonymous said...

Free Thinkie, often I like your material but here is an example of your falling into the trap of basing your material on the agendas of others and nothing to do with either logic or Islamic studies.

Daniel Pipes is not a source, he is a fund-raiser.

He plays the rather nasty game of a non-Muslim telling all other non-Muslims that only ultra-conservative and radical Islam of the Salafi and Wahhabi movement is the only real Islam and the rest are neither serious or bad Muslims. That fails when you realise in fact how small (albiet influencial, dangerous and noisy) that community is. It is also an insult to every single non-Salafi and Wahabi Muslim (ie 90 plus per cant of the Muslim world) that does go to their Mosques, prayes five times a day, fasts, fears God and gives to the poor, etc, etc).

I am rather tired of remarks and cut & pasts from professional haters like Pipes, Spencers et al, that simply enjoy playing a game to a hungry, confused and worried western bloggosphere that laps it up because they want to have a clear enemy to fix on and vent their frustrations and angers.

The average Muslim is in fact just like you and me, want to live a life and prosper, have some happiness and a chance for the children to grow up with a chance of success in their lives more than they had.

Damien Charles

Anonymous said...

AOW,

most mosques on this planet to do not have a Wahabi Imam. That you do not hear about them does not mean they do not exist. Rather like the average bulk of Muslims that are not after conquering your town, raping you and destorying your life - because they are moderate and normal you do not know about them - that again does not mean they are not there.

We can argue that they should be known, heard and make a scene - I actually support that view, but as long as you face a bit of reality and accept that there is more to Islam than the ugly side, your neither grasping the reality nor in fact facing it. Rather like your own blog that I comment on - by simply spending all your time pointing out examples of the bad and not balancing it with context about the rest of the Muslim world, your blog not longer represents that reality and thus is not successfully facing it.

Damien Charles

ps, I grew up, as I suspect you did, with the assumptions that teachers thrive on context.

Anonymous said...

I always have a laugh when the word "taqiyya" is used. That is a sure sign that the source is a part of a hate-agenda or worse.

Go and find any Muslim, particularly in the real and actual Muslim world. Ask them, can you tell me what taqiyya means? 95 per cent of answers will be, "eh? what? can you repeat that?, er, sorry, no idea?" In simple terms, it is not known. The other 5 per cent will say, yes that is a historic Islamic term given that during the time of the Quran that Mohammed instructed his followers that if they or their family were captured, threatened with execution that it was permisible to simply lie to save you and your family's life. They will say, it is a historical time when Islam was under threat.

The reality is that this modern term of "taqiyya" was the result of some very clever (if not desperate) searching in the Koran to find something to focus on. In other words it is in reality a form of deliberate islamophobia.

Ultimately, it is a way of saying that no matter what a Muslim says, it is a lie. In otherwords, it is a form of classic textbook bigotry.

Damien Charles

Anonymous said...

Z,

regardless if you do not like it or your tired of it, regardless the fact remains that you cannot blame the acts of a few on the majority. There is a space to argue of the silence of that majority in response to the few.

In fact I would go further with that argument - it is their silence that has created a void that automatically must be filled in. It gets filled in by more from the Islamists but in fact it gets filled in by those that attack Islam in general. Then it is purpetuated by stronger responses by Islamists and ever increasing anger by the anti-Islam and so on, spiralling.

Another point you made, I find it not wrong or incorrect to target those Muslims that do bad things - if they did something bad or wrong, then they should be attacked like anyone else. The important word here is "Muslim" not "Islam". I never target Islam but I do target groups such as "Islamists", I target "the Muslims that" keep silence, and I target weak western liberal policies by governments that are either scared or are so stuck on the concept of freedoms that they have yet to realise that freedoms can be abused as well.

Cheers

Damien Charles

Anonymous said...

LEST WE FORGET:


To St. Patrick

Teacher of the Christian faith of old
Once a boy in Britain, then a priest,
Stuff of myth and legend you were sold
As chattel into Ireland, where you ceased
In slavery your native pagan ways.
Needing help, you found, while tending sheep,
The Master Shepherd, who then filled your days
Plenteously with zeal that spoiled your sleep.
A fierce determination to convert
The Irish to the ways of Christ the King
Resolved the old religions to subvert.
Instilling awe, which steeple bells still ring,
Christian rites set Gaelic hearts ablaze
Kindled by a man of English ways.


~ FreeThinke - Spring 1996

Anonymous said...

On St. Paddy’s Day

On city streets and hills and village squares
Neighbors celebrate with ethnic pride
Something ancient –– veiled in mist –– with airs
That sound like merry mourning countrywide.
Pipes of clay so white and pints of brew
Abound among the throngs that flood the pubs ––
Declaiming Emerald the sacred hue ––
Decrying England’s cruel historic snubs.
Yet, maudlin sentiment soon drowns the ire.
‘Tis nostalgia that’s the order of the day ––
Sweet dreams of something mythic –– far away ––
Dissolve with drink the potency of fire.
A nation’s wounded pride may fill its heart
Yet give no strength save that which tears apart.


~ FreeThinke - Spring 1997

Z said...

Damien, I believe you just parroted exactly what I've said...what difference do you see?

Z said...

Ducky, can you show me Rick Warren mentioned in that article? thanks.

And, by the way, any time any non muslim rages against them all, that's HYPERBOLE, Ducky. And, of course, there's no "you get what you give" here. What a ridiculously immature thing for you to say.
Rabid islamists and their terror, and the sheer amounts of them, have little to do with a lousy nut who once taught Sunday school and now has killed someone.

viburnum said...

DC: " Daniel Pipes is not a source, he is a fund-raiser.

He plays the rather nasty game of a non-Muslim telling all other non-Muslims that only ultra-conservative and radical Islam of the Salafi and Wahhabi movement is the only real Islam and the rest are neither serious or bad Muslims."


"It’s a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution." ... Daniel Pipes

"... Pipes stated that Muslims can be divided into three categories: "traditional Islam", which he sees as pragmatic and non-violent, "Islamism", which he sees as dangerous and militant, and "moderate Islam", which he sees as underground and not yet codified into a popular movement ..."

Anonymous said...

SAINT PATRICK'S BREASTPLATE

"...and having on the breastplate of righteousness;”

~ Ephesians 6:14

Not our righteousness; Christ’s.

PRAYER UPON ARISING

I bind unto myself today
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.

I bind this day to me for ever.
By power of faith, Christ's incarnation;
His baptism in the Jordan river;
His death on Cross for my salvation;
His bursting from the spic├Ęd tomb;
His riding up the heavenly way;
His coming at the day of doom;
I bind unto myself today.

I bind unto myself the power
Of the great love of the cherubim;
The sweet 'well done' in judgment hour,
The service of the seraphim,
Confessors' faith, Apostles' word,
The Patriarchs' prayers, the Prophets' scrolls,
All good deeds done unto the Lord,
And purity of virgin souls.

I bind unto myself today
The virtues of the starlit heaven,
The glorious sun's life-giving ray,
The whiteness of the moon at even,
The flashing of the lightning free,
The whirling wind's tempestuous shocks,
The stable earth, the deep salt sea,
Around the old eternal rocks.

I bind unto myself today
The power of God to hold and lead,
His eye to watch, His might to stay,
His ear to hearken to my need.
The wisdom of my God to teach,
His hand to guide, His shield to ward,
The word of God to give me speech,
His heavenly host to be my guard.

Against the demon snares of sin,
The vice that gives temptation force,
The natural lusts that war within,
The hostile men that mar my course;
Or few or many, far or nigh,
In every place and in all hours,
Against their fierce hostility,
I bind to me these holy powers.


Against all Satan's spells and wiles,
Against false words of heresy,
Against the knowledge that defiles,
Against the heart's idolatry,
Against the wizard's evil craft,
Against the death wound and the burning,
The choking wave and the poisoned shaft,
Protect me, Christ, till Thy returning.


Christ be with me, Christ within me,
Christ behind me, Christ before me,
Christ beside me, Christ to win me,
Christ to comfort and restore me.
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.


I bind unto myself the Name,
The strong Name of the Trinity;
By invocation of the same.
The Three in One, and One in Three,
Of Whom all nature hath creation,
Eternal Father, Spirit, Word:
Praise to the Lord of my salvation,
Salvation is of Christ the Lord.


Submitted by FreeThinke

[NOTE: "St. :Patrick's Breastplate" has been set to music, and may be found in The Episcopal Hymnal]

Ducky's here said...

Ducky, can you show me Rick Warren mentioned in that article? thanks.

-------

If you can't read then my pointing it out won't help.

Anonymous said...

Z,

When you deign to ask questions of a snot, you may expect to get a snotty response.

My questions to you are, "Why do you bother? What good could you possibly hope to achieve?"

Stay positive. Ignore knaves, fiends and fools. Jesus would be pleased, if you did.

A lesson every one of us needs to learn: The amount of time wasted trying to reason with the moral equivalent of tombstones, tree trunks, brick walls, pickup trucks and sundry is time taken away from loving and serving Our Dear Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

"Let all bitterness, and wrath and anger, and clamor and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice

"And be Ye kind one to another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God, who for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."


Whenever we fail to "Do unto others as we would have them do unto us," we insult Almighty God, and subject His Only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to the pain of Crucifixion all over again.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

vebinium,

I started supporting Pipes for a while until I read through his carefuly written work.

in a nutshell, he puts priority on bagging and then covering his bases to avoid being identified with other haters.

just my view, and of many, many others

D Charles

Anonymous said...

z, i may have miss-read tour initial statement which i thought you disagree with the principle that you cannot blame the whole for an act of the few.

the rest i was providing support to some valid points you made.

D Charles