I'm not a Limbaugh fan, but I stumbled across THIS a few minutes ago. Excerpt from "In a Nation of Children, Santa Claus Wins":
...[Those who voted Obama back into the Oval Office] think that the only way they're gonna have a chance for anything is if somebody comes along and takes from somebody else and gives it to them. Santa Claus! And it's hard to beat Santa Claus....
[...]
...A bunch of libs are salivating over that. They think the economy is gonna come back no matter what, and that Obama's big government is going to end up being the explanation for the rest of our lives as to how that happened. Just like in Japan, just like in Greece. But look, you bring up Greece and you bring up Europe, and they're where we're headed....
I was tempted to post the video from steppenwolf, " the pusher". That is what we have. A drug dealer for leader dealing out obamaphones and the like. Same addiction.
At my blog, commenter Jason Pappas pointed on that, back in 1964 when Goldwater lost to LBJ, people were declaiming the death of conservatism and the death of the GOP; Jason then pointed out that Reagan came along.
Well, I think that Jason makes valid points. HOWEVER, there was a 16-year-gap between 1964 and 1980. And in what direction did our nation move politically and sociologically during that gap? We are still living with the consequences of what transpired during that gap.
I'm speaking of Medicaid, originally intended to provide assistance to children ONLY. Now, of course, Medicaid has a much larger role and is funding the care of nearly 80% of the elderly in nursing homes.
Private charity is mostly dead -- on the local level, in particular, because people figure that "the government will step in."
We are on an path leading to THIS: when the candy is cut off. How long can "tax the rich" actually prevent the coming economic debacle?
Please read THIS, which Pastorius wrote on November 7. Another voice of Cassandra. Haven't so many of us been Cassandras for the past few years? Our words have been doomed not to be heeded -- perhaps doomed to not even being read.
Ah, well. I'm glad that I'm as old as I am -- and childless, as well. It won't make a damn to many people if I die a few years early, will it?
No, I'm not depressed. I AM BEING REALISTIC!
"Vanity, vanity. All is vanity." That is the prophecy fulfilled by the election results of November 6.
Will I quit blogging? No, I won't -- although I am taking a blog break for the rest of this week and possibly for part of next week as I sort out matters unrelated to the November 6 election.
But I did give up long ago on "making a difference" to any significant extent. As I read over at Mr. AOW's site, "There are more of them than there are of us." So be it. Have at it, Leftists and Leftism. You are the horse given his head -- to run off the cliff.
Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.
Jason used to argue strongly with the "Objectivists" for the virtues of the "rational". This election campaign has soundly demonstrated the strengths of the "irrational", and its' ability to subdue and conquer the "rational" argument.
For is it "rational" to believe that Republicans like "Romney" were out to ban contraceptives and restrict women's access to abortion?
Of course not. But THAT fact doesn't NOT make it a winning "argument". In fact 67% of single women BOUGHT it, lock, stock AND barrel.
...just like any "argument" that explains to the American people that the government can keep spending at admittedly unsustainable rates indefinitely, and the only thing needed to remedy the situation is to increase taxers on those making more than $250k a few percent.
The causal instinct is thus conditional upon, and excited by, the feeling of fear. The "why?" shall, if at all possible, not give the cause for its own sake so much as for a particular kind of cause--a cause that is comforting, liberating, and relieving. That it is something already familiar, experienced, and inscribed in the memory, which is posited as a cause, that is the first consequence of this need. That which is new and strange and has not been experienced before, is excluded as a cause. Thus one searches not only for some kind of explanation to serve as a cause, but for a particularly selected and preferred kind of explanation--that which has most quickly and most frequently abolished the feeling of the strange, new, and hitherto unexperienced: the most habitual explanations. Consequence: one kind of positing of causes predominates more and more, is concentrated into a system and finally emerges as dominant, that is, as simply precluding other causes and explanations. The banker immediately thinks of "business," the Christian of "sin," and the girl of her love.
“The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.” ― Voltaire
The GOP lost becasue they have rendered themselves totally irrelevant to contemporary American society. And as long as there are morons out there who will continue with the idiotic rhetoric of 'socialism' or 'communism' and 'entitlement' bullshit, they will continue to go the way of T-Rex.
@viburnum --- “The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.” ― Voltaire
"The extreme right lost, big time. Boner's already talking compromise."
You state the obvious, perhaps overstate it. Almost all the "baggers" as you so hatefully call them, who got elected in 2010 got reelected this year. And you repeat what I said yesterday, but I understand how one can be puffed up by the heady feel of political victory. It is ephemeral, so I don't begrudge you it.
The election was about free stuff and constant swearing by Mitt.
Free phones, Free food, Free birth control, Free medical care, Free abortion, Free housing, Free college.
The republicans went off track again by trying to regulate morality and they need to drop the social aspect of the party.
The democrats had the right ideas from a leader who said he will tank America by not compromising over raising taxes on the rich, to a democratic spokesman who said he was glad a hurricane killed several and devastated millions. Democrats are about doing and saying anything to win.
Romney on the other hand said he was going to take away some of their free stuff and then he swore at them with four letter words like Work and Jobs.
Gotta change our ways or be on the outside looking in.
Laws and regulations are for the other guy! We're soooo cool, we don't NEED any adult supervision. Especially if we run "Green" companies or "abortion clinics".
I love the way conservatives claim they are self-sufficient and responsible for themselves, while the Red States are all utterly dependent on the federal largesse, are dirt poor, suffer the worst of most all social ills, and are the least moral and upstanding.
@Silverfiddle --- Now, who told you the fairy tale about red states being utterly dependent? -------- I believe Jersey is referring to a verifiable fact that Red states receive more government funding than they pay in taxes unlike say, New England.
But it hardly matters. On the left we have our vision of the social welfare state and understand its flaws but overall it can "civilize" the brutality and greed of the laissez-faire capitalist state.
Someone who prefers Rawls and Galbraith as examples over von Mises.
The tragedy is that the only face the right can produce is that of a mewling infant who thinks someone has taken his stuff. Whiners going on about free cell phones. Lost Libertarians who have no apparent desire to visualize what it takes to build a healthy functioning community.
Just cliches about freedom and denial of even the most verifiable facts that would challenge there little pipe dream.
Ducky: "On the left we have our vision of the social welfare state and understand its flaws but overall it can "civilize" the brutality and greed of the laissez-faire capitalist state."
One of those flaws at the moment is a national debt 105% of the GDP. At least those greedy capitalists have to balance their books. Care to enjoin the Federal government to operate under GAAP?
Studies show that states that elect Democrats contribute the most in federal taxes relative to what they consume in government services. Conversely, many states that elect Republicans contribute the least in taxes relative to the services they consume. This is true even though many Democratic states contain large, poor, urban populations of color.
[Take the U.S. News Poll: Will the Leaked Romney Videotape Sink His Campaign?]
Here's the evidence: The 10 "Tax Producing States" listed below, left, contribute the most in tax revenues relative to the services they consume. They usually vote Democratic. The ten "Tax Dependent States" listed below consume the most in government services relative to the taxes they pay. And they usually vote Republican. (Each state's name is shown in blue if voters there lean toward Obama, and red if they lean toward Romney, as per Nate Silver's 538 blog.)
No cigar, Shaw. I've read the actual study. Have you? Or did you just read some scribbler's opinion of it?
The study's author states that there are big holes in the data, and the causation you are inferring cannot be verified.
For example, a state with military installations will show up as a "taker" because of military pay and federal money spent on maintaining the bases, as will states with a higher than normal retiree population.
At the other end, people living in higher cost of living places will naturally incur more taxes.
So, nice try, but your feeble answer has been shot down already.
Now, go read the study and crunch the numbers and I have, and then get back to me when your knowledge is deeper than a magazine article.
I'd like to see if that claim held as a function of per capita tax revenue versus per capita spending. That ratio would be a far more valid comparison than pitting California against South Dakota.
The graphic emphasizes this point by showing two tables side by side. States that send more money to the federal government than they receive in federal spending are on the left, and they are primarily blue (or Democratic) states. The table on the right shows states that receive more in federal spending than they contribute in taxes. This table is predominantly red (or Republican).
The graphic says: "Of the 32 states which receive more than they contribute, 27 states (84%) are REPUBLICAN. Of the 18 states which contribute more than they receive, 14 states (78%) are DEMOCRATIC."
The source cited is a report by the Tax Foundation, a business-backed group. We checked with the Tax Foundation to see whether the data was legitimate and confirmed that it is. Spokesman Richard Morrison said that the chart uses 2005 data that was published in 2007.
We define welfare as programs to help the poor, ie Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc. The study included social security, medicare, government jobs and grants to states revolving around natural resources. There is an intrinsic difference. Blue States, those more left leaning areas, do receive more "poverty fighting" welfare than the Red States.
As Andi said, Shaw, payments include many other things beside assistance, often related to federal stuff like military bases, national parks, monuments and forests, etc.
So while the graph itself is not in dispute, the conclusion you draw is specious.
Nice try at smearing red states, but it doesn't fly.
I had so much fun googling the demographics of the blue counties in my state of Illinois. Very telling. The state is mostly red, except for the second handers.
The corrupt Democrat Machine controls Illinois. They've robbed the teachers pension fund dry, to the tune of over $80 billion "borrowed," and they've raised taxes, but the state is still broke.
And speaking of that, since we're having fun with numbers, why is it that 9 of the ten brokest states are blue ones?
JMJ: "The right-wing argues that the voters on their left are voting as they do... selfishly."
Not here Jersey. They still taught civics when I went to school and I was taught to put personal considerations aside and vote what I thought best for the country as a whole. I wish you guys would make up your minds though. Last time I had to explain that was to an #occupy type punk rocker friend of mine who was blaming Kerry's loss on right wingers who didn't have enough sense to vote in their own best interest
pShaw...what are you doing here? Shouldn't you be at your own blog impersonating your commentators and posting obscene comments about them so that you can pretend outrage when they call you names?
I decided that I am no longer going to be this polite and sweet Christian woman, I am going to be just as aggressive as the liberals, not vulgar or using profanity, but standing strong and not backing down.
There are several available data sets for various years which indicate that the population at the bottom varies. Louisiana was apparently on the side by side comparison courtesy of Hurricane Katrina. Several years later it was replaced by that bastion of conservatism, Hawaii. Both Maine and Maryland have made appearances as well. The very blue District of Columbia would be a permanent resident if it were a state, as would Puerto Rico.
As Andi and Silver have pointed out it's important to understand what the money is being spent on before drawing conclusions about where it's being spent. As for why 'snapshots' are less than informative, see Heisenberg.
Divine, you are SO right about Fluke. You don't know everything about her but what you do know is that she demeans women. And she's a slut. A young single woman going on television in front of the senate and the world whining that she can't get her birth control paid for by someone else? And, what kind of woman who goes to Georgetown law school couldn't figure out how to get birth control for less than THREE THOUSAND A YEAR? THAT is demeaning to any woman's intelligence, too. And it should have been demeaning to every person who heard it but some people bought into her.
What a dupe she was.
Ducky, we'll stop associating Obama with welfare when HE does. You call the rich "greedy Americans"...when, really, it's the poor. Think he'd have won without promises of FREE COLLEGE, FREE HEALTHCARE, FREE BIRTH CONTROL, FREE RENT, FREE CELL PHONES (see the ad that just went back up though it disappeared before the election)
Thersites: You're not going to like the turn this blog takes in the coming weeks...
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" -- Jesus
Government's place is to safeguard religious liberty, and it is religion's place to preach morality, which I agree with you that our country sorely needs.
Government's place is to safeguard religious liberty...
lol!
Sorry, "Government" is now a one stop shop. Just ask single women voters. Charity is now a Public (and political) prerogative, it is no longer a private one.
As Madison said in his "Memorial and Remonstrance"
Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?
Charity begins, and now ENDS, with the SECULAR (HA, ha!) IRS.
religion's place to preach morality, which I agree with you that our country sorely needs.
And who's teaching our kids not to bully... church or State?
I'm reminded of a line from Nietzsche's "On the future of our educational institutions"
"It is precisely in journalism that the two tendencies combine and become one. The expansion and the diminution of education here join hands. The newspaper actually steps into the place of culture, and he who, even as a scholar, wishes to voice any claim for education, must avail himself of this viscous stratum of communication which cements the seams between all forms of life, all classes, all arts, and all sciences, and which is as firm and reliable as news paper is, as a rule. In the newspaper the peculiar educational aims of the present culminate, just as the journalist, the servant of the moment, has stepped into the place of the genius, of the leader for all time, of the deliverer from the tyranny of the moment. Now, tell me, distinguished master, what hopes could I still have in a struggle against the general topsy-turvification of all genuine aims for education; with what courage can I, a single teacher, step forward, when I know that the moment any seeds of real culture are sown, they will be mercilessly crushed by the roller of this pseudo-culture? Imagine how useless the most energetic work on the part of the individual teacher must be, who would fain lead a pupil back into the distant and evasive Hellenic world and to the real home of culture, when in less than an hour, that same pupil will have recourse to a newspaper, the latest novel, or one of those learned books, the very style of which already bears the revolting impress of modern barbaric culture—"
And with PBS... the journalist is now the State AND the School teacher, the new Preacher. Watch your feet! A seismic shift of $$$ has removed the Bible from this picture.
Finntann said... Did someone ask for Per Capita Welfare Recipients by State per 100 populatio"
You did forget the great state of Mass which is 22, Penn 23 both of which lead Miss 25, Texas 28 and even Arkansas 46 in their ability to suck from others.
People in Massachusetts should be real proud at excelling at something.
We've debunked your crap already. But thanks for stopping by.
It's always hilarious when you pull your head out of your hopium bong(yes, it is evident that you are a drug user) and show up a day late and an Obamadollar short, spouting outdated and debunked talking points.
81 comments:
And they call that "Progress"
Of course the current denizens of the Democratic dungeon bare about as much resemblance to JFK as they do to Jefferson.
I'm not a Limbaugh fan, but I stumbled across THIS a few minutes ago. Excerpt from "In a Nation of Children, Santa Claus Wins":
...[Those who voted Obama back into the Oval Office] think that the only way they're gonna have a chance for anything is if somebody comes along and takes from somebody else and gives it to them. Santa Claus! And it's hard to beat Santa Claus....
[...]
...A bunch of libs are salivating over that. They think the economy is gonna come back no matter what, and that Obama's big government is going to end up being the explanation for the rest of our lives as to how that happened. Just like in Japan, just like in Greece. But look, you bring up Greece and you bring up Europe, and they're where we're headed....
I was tempted to post the video from steppenwolf, " the pusher". That is what we have. A drug dealer for leader dealing out obamaphones and the like. Same addiction.
At my blog, commenter Jason Pappas pointed on that, back in 1964 when Goldwater lost to LBJ, people were declaiming the death of conservatism and the death of the GOP; Jason then pointed out that Reagan came along.
Well, I think that Jason makes valid points. HOWEVER, there was a 16-year-gap between 1964 and 1980. And in what direction did our nation move politically and sociologically during that gap? We are still living with the consequences of what transpired during that gap.
I'm speaking of Medicaid, originally intended to provide assistance to children ONLY. Now, of course, Medicaid has a much larger role and is funding the care of nearly 80% of the elderly in nursing homes.
Private charity is mostly dead -- on the local level, in particular, because people figure that "the government will step in."
We are on an path leading to THIS: when the candy is cut off. How long can "tax the rich" actually prevent the coming economic debacle?
Please read THIS, which Pastorius wrote on November 7. Another voice of Cassandra. Haven't so many of us been Cassandras for the past few years? Our words have been doomed not to be heeded -- perhaps doomed to not even being read.
Ah, well. I'm glad that I'm as old as I am -- and childless, as well. It won't make a damn to many people if I die a few years early, will it?
No, I'm not depressed. I AM BEING REALISTIC!
"Vanity, vanity. All is vanity." That is the prophecy fulfilled by the election results of November 6.
Will I quit blogging? No, I won't -- although I am taking a blog break for the rest of this week and possibly for part of next week as I sort out matters unrelated to the November 6 election.
But I did give up long ago on "making a difference" to any significant extent. As I read over at Mr. AOW's site, "There are more of them than there are of us." So be it. Have at it, Leftists and Leftism. You are the horse given his head -- to run off the cliff.
Absolutely. And like all addicts, they just can't see the wall coming.
"In a Nation of Children, Santa Claus Wins"...
Plato, "Gorgias" (On Rhetoric)
Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.
Jason used to argue strongly with the "Objectivists" for the virtues of the "rational". This election campaign has soundly demonstrated the strengths of the "irrational", and its' ability to subdue and conquer the "rational" argument.
For is it "rational" to believe that Republicans like "Romney" were out to ban contraceptives and restrict women's access to abortion?
Of course not. But THAT fact doesn't NOT make it a winning "argument". In fact 67% of single women BOUGHT it, lock, stock AND barrel.
...just like any "argument" that explains to the American people that the government can keep spending at admittedly unsustainable rates indefinitely, and the only thing needed to remedy the situation is to increase taxers on those making more than $250k a few percent.
...but then, Hitler said in Mein Kampf that a big lie repeated often enough, gradually becomes accepted as a "truth".
Nietzsche, "Twilight of the Idols"
The causal instinct is thus conditional upon, and excited by, the feeling of fear. The "why?" shall, if at all possible, not give the cause for its own sake so much as for a particular kind of cause--a cause that is comforting, liberating, and relieving. That it is something already familiar, experienced, and inscribed in the memory, which is posited as a cause, that is the first consequence of this need. That which is new and strange and has not been experienced before, is excluded as a cause. Thus one searches not only for some kind of explanation to serve as a cause, but for a particularly selected and preferred kind of explanation--that which has most quickly and most frequently abolished the feeling of the strange, new, and hitherto unexperienced: the most habitual explanations. Consequence: one kind of positing of causes predominates more and more, is concentrated into a system and finally emerges as dominant, that is, as simply precluding other causes and explanations. The banker immediately thinks of "business," the Christian of "sin," and the girl of her love.
“The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.”
― Voltaire
The children won! They sent their parents to their rooms without supper.
@ CoF
But they still expect us to buy the groceries and pay the bills.
Vanna?! Show them what they've won!
The GOP lost becasue they have rendered themselves totally irrelevant to contemporary American society. And as long as there are morons out there who will continue with the idiotic rhetoric of 'socialism' or 'communism' and 'entitlement' bullshit, they will continue to go the way of T-Rex.
Irrelevant?
So Liberalmann, how then do you explain the GOP maintaining majority status in the house?
I do agree with your last statement. Children hate it when adults talk of taking their candy away.
@viburnum --- “The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.”
― Voltaire
----------
SSSSHHHH -- don't tell the Baggers.
@Silverfiddle --- So Liberalmann, how then do you explain the GOP maintaining majority status in the house?
-------------
I don't think anyone would say there isn't a large conservative segment in the country.
However, take a look at who lost? The extremists Baggers got pounded.
Environmentalists targeted the "Dirty 12" and 11 were defeated.
Money poured in to defeat progressives like Sharrod Brown (and there aren't many left) and he won.
The extreme right lost, big time. Boner's already talking compromise.
"Our goal is to assure that Barrack Obama is not reelected."
Hey Mitch, put in your teeth and suck it down.
"The extreme right lost, big time. Boner's already talking compromise."
You state the obvious, perhaps overstate it. Almost all the "baggers" as you so hatefully call them, who got elected in 2010 got reelected this year. And you repeat what I said yesterday, but I understand how one can be puffed up by the heady feel of political victory. It is ephemeral, so I don't begrudge you it.
But more importantly, you're off topic.
The word for today is Candy!
Forward! To Candyland!
Environmentalists targeted the "Dirty 12" and 11 were defeated.
Negative campaigning hardly serves as the basis for claiming a "mandate" for your own candidate's positions, duckman.
It's called a non sequitur, duck.
The election was about free stuff and constant swearing by Mitt.
Free phones, Free food, Free birth control, Free medical care, Free abortion, Free housing, Free college.
The republicans went off track again by trying to regulate morality and they need to drop the social aspect of the party.
The democrats had the right ideas from a leader who said he will tank America by not compromising over raising taxes on the rich, to a democratic spokesman who said he was glad a hurricane killed several and devastated millions. Democrats are about doing and saying anything to win.
Romney on the other hand said he was going to take away some of their free stuff and then he swore at them with four letter words like Work and Jobs.
Gotta change our ways or be on the outside looking in.
Good point Scud, I hope that they. Choke on their "free crap".
Eronemos and catamites for everybody! Woo-hoo!
If you don't ask, I won't tell!
Laws and regulations are for the other guy! We're soooo cool, we don't NEED any adult supervision. Especially if we run "Green" companies or "abortion clinics".
Union wages and government jobs for EVERYBODY!
Oh, wait, what do I want to even WORK for. Where's my EBT card!
I love the way conservatives claim they are self-sufficient and responsible for themselves, while the Red States are all utterly dependent on the federal largesse, are dirt poor, suffer the worst of most all social ills, and are the least moral and upstanding.
What a bunch of phonies.
JMJ
Jersey: Unfortunately, we all depend on the federal government to some extent.
Now, who told you the fairy tale about red states being utterly dependent?
Provide some authoritative links or step off. Your opinions are usually nutty, but I call BS on your blatant lies.
So put up or shut up. And you better strap it on, because I have research this issue.
So bring it on, I'm loaded with both barrels.
@Silverfiddle --- Now, who told you the fairy tale about red states being utterly dependent?
--------
I believe Jersey is referring to a verifiable fact that Red states receive more government funding than they pay in taxes unlike say, New England.
But it hardly matters. On the left we have our vision of the social welfare state and understand its flaws but overall it can "civilize" the brutality and greed of the laissez-faire capitalist state.
Someone who prefers Rawls and Galbraith as examples over von Mises.
The tragedy is that the only face the right can produce is that of a mewling infant who thinks someone has taken his stuff.
Whiners going on about free cell phones.
Lost Libertarians who have no apparent desire to visualize what it takes to build a healthy functioning community.
Just cliches about freedom and denial of even the most verifiable facts that would challenge there little pipe dream.
Ducky: "On the left we have our vision of the social welfare state and understand its flaws but overall it can "civilize" the brutality and greed of the laissez-faire capitalist state."
One of those flaws at the moment is a national debt 105% of the GDP. At least those greedy capitalists have to balance their books. Care to enjoin the Federal government to operate under GAAP?
Ducky: Verifiable fact? Then verify it.
The rest of your comment is just a rambling opinion.
Wow. Run an old 1980's video and the lefties get all wee wee'd up...
Rawls...
The guy lost his mind in marijuana hazed EST session in the late 60's with John and Yoko and hasn't come down off his contact high since.
Please. Go Self-Actualize the poor man someplace else, duckman.
Ducky's correct:
America's fiscal unionThe red and the black--Where federal taxes are raised and spent
Blue States Subsidize Red States
Studies show that states that elect Democrats contribute the most in federal taxes relative to what they consume in government services. Conversely, many states that elect Republicans contribute the least in taxes relative to the services they consume. This is true even though many Democratic states contain large, poor, urban populations of color.
[Take the U.S. News Poll: Will the Leaked Romney Videotape Sink His Campaign?]
Here's the evidence: The 10 "Tax Producing States" listed below, left, contribute the most in tax revenues relative to the services they consume. They usually vote Democratic. The ten "Tax Dependent States" listed below consume the most in government services relative to the taxes they pay. And they usually vote Republican. (Each state's name is shown in blue if voters there lean toward Obama, and red if they lean toward Romney, as per Nate Silver's 538 blog.)
SOURCE
No cigar, Shaw. I've read the actual study. Have you? Or did you just read some scribbler's opinion of it?
The study's author states that there are big holes in the data, and the causation you are inferring cannot be verified.
For example, a state with military installations will show up as a "taker" because of military pay and federal money spent on maintaining the bases, as will states with a higher than normal retiree population.
At the other end, people living in higher cost of living places will naturally incur more taxes.
So, nice try, but your feeble answer has been shot down already.
Now, go read the study and crunch the numbers and I have, and then get back to me when your knowledge is deeper than a magazine article.
I'd like to see if that claim held as a function of per capita tax revenue versus per capita spending. That ratio would be a far more valid comparison than pitting California against South Dakota.
Silver,
I, too, have studied the topic. Let's pelt them with facts until they go away!
Politifact:
The graphic emphasizes this point by showing two tables side by side. States that send more money to the federal government than they receive in federal spending are on the left, and they are primarily blue (or Democratic) states. The table on the right shows states that receive more in federal spending than they contribute in taxes. This table is predominantly red (or Republican).
The graphic says: "Of the 32 states which receive more than they contribute, 27 states (84%) are REPUBLICAN. Of the 18 states which contribute more than they receive, 14 states (78%) are DEMOCRATIC."
The source cited is a report by the Tax Foundation, a business-backed group. We checked with the Tax Foundation to see whether the data was legitimate and confirmed that it is. Spokesman Richard Morrison said that the chart uses 2005 data that was published in 2007.
So the graphic is solidly grounded in reality.
We define welfare as programs to help the poor, ie Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc. The study included social security, medicare, government jobs and grants to states revolving around natural resources. There is an intrinsic difference. Blue States, those more left leaning areas, do receive more "poverty fighting" welfare than the Red States.
As Andi said, Shaw, payments include many other things beside assistance, often related to federal stuff like military bases, national parks, monuments and forests, etc.
So while the graph itself is not in dispute, the conclusion you draw is specious.
Nice try at smearing red states, but it doesn't fly.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/red-state-blue-state-who-receives-the-most-federal-funding-not-ready-hold-for-wed-am/
I had so much fun googling the demographics of the blue counties in my state of Illinois. Very telling. The state is mostly red, except for the second handers.
The corrupt Democrat Machine controls Illinois. They've robbed the teachers pension fund dry, to the tune of over $80 billion "borrowed," and they've raised taxes, but the state is still broke.
And speaking of that, since we're having fun with numbers, why is it that 9 of the ten brokest states are blue ones?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/state-debt-report_n_1836603.html#slide=1441222
Have they been eating too much candy?
For a real headache, read this:
http://www.statebudgetcrisis.org/wpcms/wp-content/images/2012-10-12-Illinois-Report-Final-2.pdf
"...I'm loaded with both barrels"
Silver, it depends on what you put in those barrels as to what comes out.
The right-wing argues that the voters on their left are voting as they do... selfishly.
The far right is projecting their own reflection. They cannot concede that most voters, the vast middle, are of bigger mind and heart than that.
I work extremely hard for a living, always have, am proud of it, and when a con says I'm a lazy SOB looking for presents, I want to spit on them.
When you cons make sleazy, insulting arguments like that, don't ever expect your listener to agree with you.
That's why you guys lost EVERY minority vote. The Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, Gays, young people, let alone WOMEN!
Ever try looking at yourself???
JMJ
Jersey: "Obamaphone!"
Jersey,
Women are a minority? Really? Why does everyone in your world be;long to a collective?
Andie: Jersey takes a very condescending tone with women, and he has trouble with strong ones. It's a common trait among liberal men.
JMJ: "The right-wing argues that the voters on their left are voting as they do... selfishly."
Not here Jersey. They still taught civics when I went to school and I was taught to put personal considerations aside and vote what I thought best for the country as a whole. I wish you guys would make up your minds though. Last time I had to explain that was to an #occupy type punk rocker friend of mine who was blaming Kerry's loss on right wingers who didn't have enough sense to vote in their own best interest
"Andie: Jersey takes a very condescending tone with women, and he has trouble with strong ones. It's a common trait among liberal men."
Yeah. Right. Radical Redneck and Thersities have been so gentlemanly. Yeah.
And Rush Limbaugh calling Sandra Fluke a slut. That's respectful.
And the GOP governor of Virginia proposing forced vaginal probes.
As Ducky says, please stop.
Sandra Fluke IS a slut.
Divine,
Nice way to attack a woman you know nothing about. It's not the first time you've done that either.
What is it about conservative women who need to degrade other women in order to feel superior?
pShaw...what are you doing here? Shouldn't you be at your own blog impersonating your commentators and posting obscene comments about them so that you can pretend outrage when they call you names?
The Libertarian position:
We don't care if she's a slut or not, so long as she pays for her own friggin birth control, or her broodlings when she doesn't.
I decided that I am no longer going to be this polite and sweet Christian woman, I am going to be just as aggressive as the liberals, not vulgar or using profanity, but standing strong and not backing down.
Sick of playing nice.
Back to the red states on the dole issue.
There are several available data sets for various years which indicate that the population at the bottom varies. Louisiana was apparently on the side by side comparison courtesy of Hurricane Katrina. Several years later it was replaced by that bastion of conservatism, Hawaii. Both Maine and Maryland have made appearances as well. The very blue District of Columbia would be a permanent resident if it were a state, as would Puerto Rico.
As Andi and Silver have pointed out it's important to understand what the money is being spent on before drawing conclusions about where it's being spent. As for why 'snapshots' are less than informative, see Heisenberg.
Did someone ask for Per Capita Welfare Recipients by State per 100 population
Rank States Amount
1 District of Columbia: 7.835
2 Guam: 6.397
3 Rhode Island: 3.319
4 Tennessee: 3.026
5 California: 3.005
6 Maine: 2.842
7 Alaska: 2.4
8 West Virginia: 2.283
9 Indiana: 2.241
10 Washington: 2.238
11 New Mexico: 2.23
12 Vermont: 2.044
I was gonna list the top 10 but after seeing D.C and Guam, decided to go with 12 to get 10 states.
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel_cas_tot_rec_percap-caseloads-total-recipients-per-capita
Shaw,
It;s fairly simple, oh sensitive one...Ms. Fluke expects her sexual escapades to be paid for. There is a name for that.
Divine :0
Leticia: You will always be "a polite and sweet Christian woman," God bless you.
But yeah, take the gloves off. Even Jesus tipped over some tables and made a whip of cords in the temple.
@Divine --- It's fairly simple, oh sensitive one...Ms. Fluke expects her sexual escapades to be paid for. There is a name for that.
--------
Only sluts use birth control?
When will you fools stop equating the Obama vote with welfare?
We don't expect deep thought from the fringe right but this is foolish even for Libertarians.
@Only sluts use birth control?
No, only progressives expect other people to foot the bill.
We'll be footing the bill when you and Silver need penis pills.
Ducky: "When will you fools stop equating the Obama vote with welfare?"
When liberals stop spending my great-grand-children's money
Thanks, Finn! Precisely!
Sad Ducky...
What's next, poo poo jokes?
Waitaminute, Ducky and Shaw. You mean to tell me the Democrat Party is not the party of the downtrodden and poor?
Nevermind. I figured it out.
Mitt Romney was too white to put misogyny and venture capitalism to a beat.
No wonder Jay Z is twice as wealthy as Romney.
Divine, you are SO right about Fluke. You don't know everything about her but what you do know is that she demeans women. And she's a slut.
A young single woman going on television in front of the senate and the world whining that she can't get her birth control paid for by someone else?
And, what kind of woman who goes to Georgetown law school couldn't figure out how to get birth control for less than THREE THOUSAND A YEAR? THAT is demeaning to any woman's intelligence, too. And it should have been demeaning to every person who heard it but some people bought into her.
What a dupe she was.
Ducky, we'll stop associating Obama with welfare when HE does. You call the rich "greedy Americans"...when, really, it's the poor. Think he'd have won without promises of FREE COLLEGE, FREE HEALTHCARE, FREE BIRTH CONTROL, FREE RENT, FREE CELL PHONES (see the ad that just went back up though it disappeared before the election)
man, pay attention, leftwingers
Free birth control BOUGHT the single woman vote... and the Democrats got them to the polls.
Republicans are the party of the "patriarchy"... and Auntie Sam has promised to take care of them. Obama is their new Baby Daddy.
What is the illegitimacy rate in America?
Perhaps the social conservatives can be blamed for it!
Conservatives are fighting demographics for GOOD reason.
Libertarians don't want to fight the culture war, but the demographics will MURDER them if they don't.
Thersites: You're not going to like the turn this blog takes in the coming weeks...
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" -- Jesus
Government's place is to safeguard religious liberty, and it is religion's place to preach morality, which I agree with you that our country sorely needs.
Government's place is to safeguard religious liberty...
lol!
Sorry, "Government" is now a one stop shop. Just ask single women voters. Charity is now a Public (and political) prerogative, it is no longer a private one.
As Madison said in his "Memorial and Remonstrance"
Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?
Charity begins, and now ENDS, with the SECULAR (HA, ha!) IRS.
religion's place to preach morality, which I agree with you that our country sorely needs.
And who's teaching our kids not to bully... church or State?
I'm reminded of a line from Nietzsche's "On the future of our educational institutions"
"It is precisely in journalism that the two tendencies combine and become one. The expansion and the diminution of education here join hands. The newspaper actually steps into the place of culture, and he who, even as a scholar, wishes to voice any claim for education, must avail himself of this viscous stratum of communication which cements the seams between all forms of life, all classes, all arts, and all sciences, and which is as firm and reliable as news paper is, as a rule. In the newspaper the peculiar educational aims of the present culminate, just as the journalist, the servant of the moment, has stepped into the place of the genius, of the leader for all time, of the deliverer from the tyranny of the moment. Now, tell me, distinguished master, what hopes could I still have in a struggle against the general topsy-turvification of all genuine aims for education; with what courage can I, a single teacher, step forward, when I know that the moment any seeds of real culture are sown, they will be mercilessly crushed by the roller of this pseudo-culture? Imagine how useless the most energetic work on the part of the individual teacher must be, who would fain lead a pupil back into the distant and evasive Hellenic world and to the real home of culture, when in less than an hour, that same pupil will have recourse to a newspaper, the latest novel, or one of those learned books, the very style of which already bears the revolting impress of modern barbaric culture—"
And with PBS... the journalist is now the State AND the School teacher, the new Preacher. Watch your feet! A seismic shift of $$$ has removed the Bible from this picture.
"Government" see's ITS role as one of EXPUNGING religion ala "War on Terror.
Oooops. Did I say "terror"? I meant Islam. ;)
Finntann said...
Did someone ask for Per Capita Welfare Recipients by State per 100 populatio"
You did forget the great state of Mass which is 22, Penn 23 both of which lead Miss 25, Texas 28 and even Arkansas 46 in their ability to suck from others.
People in Massachusetts should be real proud at excelling at something.
Ah, quoting the great Dennis miller. Lol!
No surprises here, lol!
The ten best (and worst) educated states and how they voted...
http://www.happyplace.com/19076/election-infographic-shows-most-educated-states-voted-for-obama
LiberalMannequin:
Did you even read the thread?
We've debunked your crap already. But thanks for stopping by.
It's always hilarious when you pull your head out of your hopium bong(yes, it is evident that you are a drug user) and show up a day late and an Obamadollar short, spouting outdated and debunked talking points.
Away with him!
Clap him in irons, drag him to the dungeon and arrange to have him drawn and quartered at sunup.
Let us declare the morrow a Feast Day!
Butcher his remains, roast them over live coals and feed them them to the multitudes.
I'm eager to glut my maw with the blood of liberal scum.
Hunka Hunka Hunka!
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