Friday, September 21, 2012

A Sick Culture

The Ottoman Empire was famously called The Sick Man of Europe back in the mid 19th century.  The words of Czar Nicholas could just as easily be applied today to the Muslim World...
"a sick man—a very sick man," a "man" who "has fallen into a state of decrepitude, ... gravely ill".
Islam has spawned a sick culture. It is not normal or healthy to stone adulteresses, behead "infidels," collapse walls on homosexuals, chop off hands, or bomb and burn and murder at every perceived slight. It is sick.

And please, those of you who enjoy defending Islam, spare us the crap this time. It wasn't Copts who did this latest violence.   It wasn't Zoroastrians who stormed the US embassy in Tehran and took Americans hostage.  It wasn't Hindus who brought down the World Trade Center.  It was all done by Muslims.   

Muslims Must Learn the Golden Rule

Having a murderously jealous religious chauvinism is very unhealthy, for themselves and those who have the misfortune to become embroiled in their churlish and hyper-sensitive controversies.  For a people so given to hair-trigger screaming grievance at any less-than-reverent treatment of Islam, they sure enjoy trashing the religions of others, often by arson and murder.  If they want to be respected and treated like adults, they need to start acting like adults and respect the religious rights of others.
The events in Benghazi created a major opportunity for President Obama to speak out about an important problem that afflicts a significant segment of the Muslim world: an inability to recognize that it is not just its religion that deserves to be respected.

The president had an opportunity, and still has the opportunity, to call upon Muslim leaders to teach those who heed their words that they accord to others the same respect for the heritage and practices of other religions that they rightly expect for their own. (Dov Zakheim)
Why are Muslims so easily offended?

Dr. Fouad Ajami, a most expert and articulate observer of the Arab world, explains...
There is an Arab pain and a volatility in the face of judgment by outsiders that stem from a deep and enduring sense of humiliation. A vast chasm separates the poor standing of Arabs in the world today from their history of greatness. In this context, their injured pride is easy to understand.
[...]
Younger Arabs today can be brittle and proud about their culture, yet deeply ashamed of what they see around them. They know that more than 300 million Arabs have fallen to economic stagnation and cultural decline. They know that the standing of Arab states along the measures that matter — political freedom, status of women, economic growth — is low. In the privacy of their own language, in daily chatter on the street, on blogs and in the media, and in works of art and fiction, they probe endlessly what befell them. (Why is the Muslim World so easily Offended?)
Walter Russell Mead does his usual excellent work putting these violent events in context. Much of it is about local politics...
Moderates who speak against violence or try to cool matters look like American puppets; this is the kind of issue the radicals love, and we can expect them to milk it for all it is worth.
He goes on to caution people like me who tend to say to hell with them.  That's what the 7th century Muslim extremists want:  To drive an even greater wedge between Islamic society and modernity.  The obscurantists want to keep the people ignorant, superstitious and suspicious.

I saw it myself as I sat at Bagram prepared to go into Pakistani Kashmir after that big earthquake in 2005.  We had whole field hospitals and Satcom systems with phone banks so people could call their families and tell them they were ok.  We had food and medicine, but Pakistan told us no.  

They saw how our stature increased in Indonesia thanks to the aid we provided after the tsunami.  They did not want their people cosying up to Uncle Sam or, Allah forbid, to stop hating America.  So we complied with their request and put no personnel on the ground and dropped anonymous packages from the sky.

As we've seen in Libya, even helping them topple a dictator and putting in an Arabic-speaking ambassador who genuinely admires the culture doesn't move the pegged needle on their hatred dial.

They are sick, but the cure must come from within. As a man over at HuffPo wrote to his fellow Muslims, It is now Time to Grow Up

47 comments:

LD Jackson said...

Your story about Pakistan is telling about where the priorities of these people lie. Instead of helping their citizens, they are more interested in making sure the West doesn't look good to them. That's a sad place to be in.

Silverfiddle said...

As usual, you've contradicted yourself, Steve.

First you said:

"It is normal for them, they have been treating people like that for thousands of years."

Then you accuse me of making assumptions. Which is it?

Christians did once engage in Old Testament punishments, but not anymore, so what's your point?

And I deleted your comment because you included a tiresome, repetitive charge against another blogger. Every time I see that, I will delete it.

Stay on topic or begone.

jez said...

"It is not normal or healthy to stone adulteresses, behead "infidels," collapse walls on homosexuals, chop off hands, or bomb and burn and murder at every perceived slight. It is sick."

I wonder if it is normal (ie probable to be considered correct at a random place and time in human history)? Either way, it is a highly valuable cultural norm that would be desirable to export.

Donna said...

SF, You raise an important point. There is no question that Morons like Steve have no facts, no arguments, nothing; he should get himself a life outside of kissing the behinds of the Obama administration. And while he is at it, get an education.Muslims are intolerant to America's laws and they do not wish to compromise. It's their way or no way. .

Rational Nation USA said...

Be easy on Steve, he is obviously filled with hate. Probably the result of attention deprivation when he (lt) was a child.

Rational Nation USA said...

Of course the cure for Muslims must come from within. As it did for Christians. It is possible this might happen. However, goven their religion teaches otherwise, and a large number are still immersed in 7th century mentality, it is likely going to be a very very long time before it happens.

-FJ said...

Islam represents the principle of endogamy, the West, exogamy.

Any n'er the two shall meet.... except in Dar al Harb.

Ducky's here said...

Yes, better to see this as Arabs instead of Muslims.

Large Muslim nations like Indonesia and Malaysia are doing very well these days.
India is the second largest Muslim nation behind Indonesia and despite the Kashmir issue relations between Muslim and Hindu are reasonably good. Both sides have their idiots but it's working.
In the arts Indian Muslims have developed one of the few innovative schools of painting in recent years. Very high quality.

It's no surprise that your readers did not pick up on this point, Silverfiddle.

Mustang said...

“Younger Arabs today can be brittle and proud about their culture, yet deeply ashamed of what they see around them. They know that more than 300 million Arabs have fallen to economic stagnation and cultural decline.”

This is an excellent insight. Of course, this is part of the plan among the mullahs. Every fascist jerk-off worth a salt knows that if you are able to maintain a high level of illiteracy (beyond the Qur’anic text), if you keep the people poor, miserable, and dependent … it is much easier to control them. This is the game being played out through various levels of Islam, from the Wahhabi mosques in Saudi Arabia, to the Muslim Brotherhood, which has spread as a cancer, to the Salafists who are useful pawns of both.

It is impractical to think we can save the world —particularly when trillions of dollars spend by the west on petroleum never finds its way down through the unseemly masses. I do see an interesting parallel between the Middle East and Mexico. For years, the Mexican government has seen illegal migration to the United States as a safety valve; northward movement having the effect of releasing the social pressure to reform failed socialism in Mexico. We have yet to solve this “more manageable” problem. The steam valve in the Middle East is extremism. I don’t see how any government, no matter how bountiful its resources, can manage these dire circumstances.

Silverfiddle said...

"Yes, better to see this as Arabs instead of Muslims."

But I didn't do that. Are you arguing with demons in your head again?

Thersites said...

Very high quality...

Thersites said...

...not empty technique, like the pre-Baroque. ;)

Bunkerville said...

For some reason now, we are suppose to feel guilty and apologize for being Americans. Imperfect at times, but the best thing the world has seen in a long long time. The crux of the problem for the most part.

conservativesonfire said...

You are so very right, Kurt. Their psychosis is self inflicted and only than can hope to cure it. To the extent possible, we need to have a minimum of contact with those countries and we should stop sendin foreign aid to them. They are not our friends. China will step in. So be it. I would like to see how the Chinese deal with their embassy being attacked, their flags burned, and their people killed.

This is exactly why America must find ways not to have to buy oil ffrom that region. However, there are other resources in the region that are critical to our national security. For example, the US Geological Survey found what may be the world's largest lithium deposit in Afghanistan. Lithium is crical to our computer s and to to our high technological defense systems. Today, China controls most of the world's lithium deposits. It is a shame that the US didn't declare war on Afghanistan instead of on terrorism. We could have forced the Afghan government to the negotiating table and part of those negotians would have been access by American companies to the lithium deposits. Now we must find another more costly approach. So much for our strategic planning.

Jack Camwell said...

Islam came around in the 7th century AD. Arab culture was already brutal, so stop saying that Islam somehow made the Middle East and North Africa crappy.

As Steve said, their culture was brutal for a long, long time before Islam came about. The culture formed and influenced the religion, not the other way around.

Silver, I respect your opinions although I disagree with some of them. But before you start making charges like the ones you have made, you really ought to have a better grasp of the cultural history of the region.

Islam is no more the problem for the Arabs than Christianity was for Western Civilization. Was Christianity to blame for the Inquisition? No, the brutal and torturous nature of Western Civilization at the time was to blame for that.

Religions are merely excuses for societies to justify their pre-existing horrifying behavior. It allows them to do whatever they want and not feel bad about it, because of course it's all in the name of God/Allah/Yahweh.

The way a religion is practiced by a society is a reflection of the culture of that society.

Is it any wonder that Asian Muslims are *generally* more peaceful than Middle Eastern Muslims? Is it any wonder that Southern Bapists tend to be more prone to zealotry than say, a Midwestern Catholic?

Mind you, I'm not an apologist. I'm not trying to justify violent behavior or whatever, so do everyone here a favor and just pretend like the word "appologist" doesn't even exist in your vocabulary, because it simply does not apply to anything I've said thus far.

Deputy Cornfuzed Democrat of the PC Police said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Silverfiddle said...

Is it any wonder that Asian Muslims are *generally* more peaceful than Middle Eastern Muslims?

Who said? Ever heard of Pakistan? Afghanistan? Read the history of Indonesia? Read about he recent rioting in Indonesia?

Regardless of the cause (religion and culture are intertwined, so the debate is useless), the Islamic world is convulsed in sickness, and only they can heal themselves, we can't do it for them.

Silverfiddle said...

And also Jack, better said would have been "Semitic culture was already brutal."

Judaism and Christianity grew from the same roots, but you don't see those religions gripped by such pathologies today. Islam is dragging ass.

Jack Whyte said...

You're right. It is a sick culture.

Always On Watch said...

Duck mentioned that Malaysia is doing well.

Well, today in Malaysia, this happened:

Bangkok, 21 Sep - Thousands attended today's anti-Innocence movie rallies in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur. Two separate demonstrations converged on the US embassy at which point four delegates handed the embassy's chief of security a statement demanding that the US acknowledge full responsibility for the Innocence of Muslim's release. During the rallies US and Israeli flags were burned to cries of "Allah is great."

Maybe it's time for the United States to become isolationist wherever and whenever irate Muslim mobs are carrying on.

Always On Watch said...

What I haven't heard much mention of the past 10 days after all this Muslim mayhem has broken out: the murder of Theo van Gogh. Remember that back in 2004?

Silverfiddle,
That HuffPo essay is excellent! I hope that all here are reading that essay. It's important!

Ducky's here said...

But I didn't do that. Are you arguing with demons in your head again?

---------
Actually, I thought you were coming close to coming to grips with yours. Apparently not.

Seems you've been hanging out with those "My God is bigger than your God" demented assholes that they are turning out in volume at the Air Force Academy.

An eye for an eye till we go blind.

Always On Watch said...

Today's offended Muslim photos at CNN -- worldwide, according to CNN.

After mosque services, of course.

Silverfiddle said...

Weak tea, Ducky. I refer you to my earlier comments, specifically:


"Regardless of the cause (religion and culture are intertwined, so the debate is useless), the Islamic world is convulsed in sickness, and only they can heal themselves, we can't do it for them."

-FJ said...

"My God is bigger than your God" demented assholes that they are turning out in volume at the Air Force Academy.

An eye for an eye till we go blind.


You should see the equivalent crop from Al Azhar in Cairo!

Oh, wait, ALL of the universities in the ME turn out the bigger G_d types! Air Force only graduates about 1,300 graduates a year whereas Iran had over 3.5 million enrolled in THEIR universities last year...

Ducky's here said...

Not all that interesting , AOW.

Overwhelmingly Pakistani and we have been committing extra legal attacks there with considerable frequency.

You have to expected some frayed nerves when we send in the drones.

-FJ said...

committing extra legal attacks...

What was 9/11 duckman?

-FJ said...

You want terror? We can give you terror.

Leticia said...

Obama has had the chance and still has done thing to avenge the deaths of our Americans.

I am tired of hearing people defend this gruesome and vicious religion that thrives on their hate and seem to enjoy torturing and murdering innocent people.

It's time for people to wake and realize Muslims are at war with everyone.

FreeThinke said...

Nothing t argue against here.

Jack Camwell makes a good point, however.

ALL human societies started out crude, cruel, rapacious and fundamentally barbaric.

Read the Old Testament - aka "The Jewish Bible" -- if you don't believe me. A chronicle of one vicious assault and genocidal campaign of unbridled slaughter after another -- all justified as demanded and directed by "God."

The difference between the Semites and the European Caucasian Christians is that the latter gradually evolved toward the Enlightenment and increasingly higher standards of ethical, humane, altruistic treatment of fellow creatures, while the Semitic tribes of the desert remained fixed in the brutal, bellicose mentality of seventh to the ninth centuries.

Why is that, do you suppose?

The teachings of Jesus Christ certainly had a lot to do with shaping and encouraging higher standards of conduct.

"We," if there is such an entity as "we," have been better developed in the areas of morality and ethics than others, but we never attained anything even close to Perfection.

Done a lot of backsliding, especially since the Sick-sties, because our collective Western ethos of striving towards nobility of motive and purity of conscience caused us to welcome pernicious influences into our midst determined to do us in.

Instead of becoming increasingly noble and high-minded, we've retreated instead into what-only-could-be-called a state of militant pusillanimity -- or aggressive wimpishness, if you prefer.

DISGUSTING and DISCOURAGING!

~ FreeThinke

Thersites said...

It's hard to trick nature, FT.

Jersey McJones said...

Silver,

I love the way you quote the emperor of one "old sick man" critiquing the other "old sick man" to his south. What a strange, rather incoherent, lead-in.

And Ducky is right. There are plainly visible geographic centers to the problems you describe that are far, far smaller than the totality of the Muslim world. If it was Islam, then we'd be seeing a lot more of these problems. There are a lot, a lot, of Muslim people in the world.

And when you look at our own violent crime rates, as a comparison, we're just as bad as them - but yet Europeans are not.

But then we're more religious, right?

Yes, religion always plays into these problems, but not everywhere all the time, and always in degrees.

Besides, it's not like Islam is going to convert anytime soon, so what's you're message, Silver?

Kill 'em all?

What do you want, let alone expect?

Just the same, I'm glad you write about stuff like this, because it is important.

JMJ

Silverfiddle said...

And when you look at our own violent crime rates, as a comparison, we're just as bad as them

Predictable stupid twaddle from the left.

Where would you rather live, Jersey?

Thought so.

Hugh Farnham said...

A vast chasm separates the poor standing of Arabs in the world today from their history of greatness. In this context, their injured pride is easy to understand.

Sounds like America in 2016 under Obama. Our history of greatness will grate against the socialist poverty we will see all around us.

Finntann said...

@Seems you've been hanging out with those "My God is bigger than your God" demented assholes that they are turning out in volume at the Air Force Academy.

Associate with a lot of Academy grads Duck?

Nearly thirty years in and around the Air Force and I could count the number of overt evangelical fundamentalists I've met without taking my shoes off. In fact, I probably met knew more atheists and agnostics, and for some strange reason I've met an awful lot of Wiccans.

Never was an issue and no one ever tried to convert me. Sure one or two invited me to services at their church... no repercussions for not going.

Turning out in volume? I don't think so.

Cheers!

Jack Camwell said...

AOW,

A white guy in Norway killed 70 people not long ago. Violence knows no borders, creed, or colors.

Silver,

The Jews were just as brutal as any other culture surrounding them. The only reason they were tamed was because they were conquered by other western cultures. That especially rings true with being under the thumb of Roman rule. My guess is, however, that neither you or myself are well read enough to pinpoint where Jewish culture became less barbaric and why. Maybe with Mosaic law?

Before the time of the Kings, the Jews were every bit as barbaric as their Arabic neighbors. That's not only historical fact, but the Bible points to their brutality, supposedly commanded by God. Hmm, wholesale slaughter of non-believers . . . sound familiar?

Anyhow, religion and culture are intertwined, but if you know anything about the progression of human culture, you would know that this is definitely not a chicken or egg argument. Culture came first, religions have been the spawn of pre-existing culture.

Religion is the way in which a people attempt to make sense of those things that are imperceptible. The various religions reflect the human needs in the times they were born, not necessarily any sort of divine revelation.

A society that believes in God is a society that has a "purpose" other than their own human needs for conquest and greatness. Yeah, slaughtering women and children is totally okay so long as "God commands it." Torturing Jews and burning heretics at the stake is fine so long as "God commands it." Blowing up a school bus full of children is totally cool so long as "God commands it."

Sure, Indonesia and Malaysia have experienced violence, probably at the hand of Muslim extremists. But America is one of the most violent countries on the planet. Remember Oklahoma City? The Unibomber? Various serial killers? School shootings? Not religiously motivated, but at the end of the day does it really matter WHY they choose to kill?

Nope.

Silverfiddle said...

All good words, jack, but despite our violence, people walk free here, and worship and say outrageous things without fear of being beheaded or burned to death.

You are dealing in false equivalencies.

We can argue about root causes all day long, but Islamic culture has a big problem. Not Judaism, not Christianity, Islam.

Finntann said...

@Remember Oklahoma City? The Unibomber? Various serial killers? School shootings?

But America is one of the most violent countries on the planet.

I fear, Jack, that you've succumbed to the media meta-reality.

Finntann said...

But perhaps, not beyond hope:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/21/14018495-protesting-libyans-overrun-militant-compound-in-backlash-against-armed-groups?lite

Jack Camwell said...

This is not false equivelancy. Islamic culture isn't to blame . . . ARAB CULTURE is to blame.

Islam is merely the tool used by the despots to falsely justify their despotism.

Z said...

FT..it's so hard to so frequently see your take on the Old Testament and what God did there that it almost hurts. Sometimes, I just have to mention it.
That's it! No use saying more.

Excellent post, SF...and, as usual, you defend it so well.

Silverfiddle said...

This is not false equivelancy. Islamic culture isn't to blame . . . ARAB CULTURE is to blame.

I admire your stubbornness if the face of facts, Jack.

Just try to separate the culture from the religion.

As previously stated, Jews and Christians came from the same area and the same Semitic culture, yet they no longer cut heads off, stone adultresses and murder homosexuals. Not even the ones who still live there, in the same culture, do that anymore, only the Muslims (and with exceptions, so non-Muslims in North Africa, maybe)

Also, as I previously noted, Afghans and Pakistanis and all the other Central Asian Muslims are not Arabs, yet they display the same obscurantism and bloodlust, so the "Arab culture" argument doesn't really hold water.

Red Herring said...

Islam IS the essence of 7th century Arab culture, captured in a book. I fail to see a distinction, Jack, unless you're referring to it's 21st century equivalent.

jez said...

I wonder how "gradual" Christendom's journey to enlightenment was? Can an historical case be made for *sudden* enlightenment instead?

Hugh Farnham said...

When we read in the Old Testament how God ordered the liquidation of complete Canaanite cultures we are left wondering about a God who would order such things.

A fact almost completely expunged from history is that some Canaanites were not completely human. In other words, genetically they were a different species altogether and not in the image of God.

Consider the Canaanite giant Goliath who was reported to be some 6 1/2 cubits tall - almost 10 foot - with twelve fingers and twelve toes. He had several brothers, we are told, which indicates a genetic trait passing from one generation to another.

There's religious and secular historical references to these part-human aberrations:

Flavius Josephus: Antiquties of the Jews

Biblical References: Giants in the Old Testament

Interesting evidence from the New World: South American Giants

Closer to home, an account of giants unearthed near my land in Nevada: The Lovelock Cave

Right Wing Theocrat said...

If muslims want to climb out of the toilet, they need to leave their koran behind.

That's what keeps them in the toilet.

Right Wing Theocrat said...

If muslims want to get out of the toilet, they need to leave the koran behind.

No other way.