Obama begs the naive rubes, “I need you to keep believing in me.” The eternal plaint of charlatans, abusers and scam artists...
And then he lapsed into his canned stand-up snark routine and Romnesia references. Bayonets, binders, and Big Birds, oh my!
His campaign is panicky and desperate, but he’s getting help from Republican politicians…
Danger Will Robinson!
When will old Republican men learn to stop talking about rape? Don't they know only liberal women and feminized Democratic men are allowed to address such hot button topics? I’m not a woman, but I still find it creepy when old men on the stump talk about rape and women’s bodies. If you’re too stupid to understand that getting anywhere near this subject is political suicide, then you don’t belong in politics. I’m not a politician and even I know it’s a no-win situation for a man to start talking about that stuff. Stay away!
All it does is provide another opportunity for liberals to go into siren mode and scream self-righteous banalities like "Keep your hands off our ovaries," etc. It is talking point fodder for an intellectually bereft party, giving them something to shout about in the absence of ideas and a record…
What do Mitt Romney and the Rock Band U2 have in common?
Both have filled Red Rocks amphitheater to capacity with cheering fans. With tens of thousands more turned away.
Speaking of that famed concert venue outside of Morrison, my state might just redeem itself by rejecting Obama. Denverite Robin Abrams voted for him four years ago, but this time around she’s not so sure. She’s hip to the president’s killing babies in the womb stance, but she’s not too happy with his economic policies.
"Obama seemed promising—something new, something fresh," Abrams said Tuesday from a coffee shop in Englewood, a suburb south of Denver.
But this time around, she'd undecided. She's getting out of college in about a year and isn't sure she'll be able to find a job. She likes Obama's stance on social issues, especially women's health and abortion rights. But she's thinking about her pocketbook, too. (Denver Post)
What dim bulbs like her don’t realize is that abortion is the law of the land, and no president can reverse it, but the Democrat party gets a lot of mileage selling it to the suckers who continue to vote for them, so we’ll be hearing about it and other "women's issues" ad nauseum.
But here is what should really sink Obama's reelection bid...
But here is what should really sink Obama's reelection bid...
We also learned that, in those first moments of the attack, a request for military back-up was made by U.S. staff on the ground but was denied by Washington. It had planes and special forces less than 500 miles away in southern Italy — or about the same distance as Washington to Boston. They could have been there in less than two hours.
Yet the commander-in-chief declined to give the order. So Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods fought all night against overwhelming odds, and died on a rooftop in a benighted jihadist hellhole while Obama retired early to rest up before his big Vegas campaign stop. (The Incredible Shrinking President)Barack Obama is a dithering, blathering nincompoop. He's an un-serious man in a very serious time. His economy stinks, and it's time to fire him.
80 comments:
When will old Republican men learn to stop talking about rape?
Frankly, I don't think that ANY men should attempt to address the topic of rape. They simply do not have the frame of reference required to hold forth on the topic.
Feminist women piss me off, too. They've twisted the definition of rape into any male "violation of a woman's space." A guy whistles at me, and that's sexual assault? Puhleeze!
The only people qualified to address the topic of rape are the rape victims themselves.
Sorry, but rape is an abortion issue AND if one holds the position that there shouldn't be a "rape exception", then THAT position needs to be defended.
Personally I think that every rule requires an "exception", and so the reasoning for this "exception" MUST be both closely argued AND defensible.
...for as we have it, abortion is now a matter of "choice" and NOT "necessity".
In other words, there need to be "good" reasons that justify the practice. And no, it's NOT just a "woman's" issue. It's a "societal" issue.
Obama's latest laff line: Speaking of the hurricane yesterday he said, "We leave no one behind." Then his speech started stumbling. I think he realized what he said is indefensible.
I've never yet attended a performance of Peter Pan where the audience failed to clap most earnestly -- even tearfully -- when Tinker Bell's light flickers, dims and threatens to go out.
There's Something in us that could not survive the certain knowledge that we did not do everything we possibly could to help keep Peter Pan's fractious little friend alive.
The day an audience sits on its hands at this critical juncture in the action of the play will signal the start of our Ragnarok -- our Goetterdaemmerung -- the final loss of contact with our humanity and our descent into the maelstrom swirling us down into the darkness and despair of barbarism.
Few realize that Peter Pan, despite its charm, apparent naiveté, and whimsical appeal to children of all ages, is a deeply serious work.
If we want to use James M. Barrie to satirize the Obama Regime, we’d do better to portray Obama as Captain Hook or the Crocodile -- not Tinker Bell.
~ FreeThinke
Let's see, Obama didn't send a strike force from Italy. Of course the right wing mind assumes that the use of military power is always effective but would it have been?
You fringe righties talk as if the embassy attack was freaking Stalingrad. Yes, four people were killed.
Would a strike have prevented that?
Would a strike have caused more death?
Would a strike have worsened the tensions in Libya ultimately causing more deaths?
Normals want answers from the fringe right or at least a demonstration they have a clue.
Ducky. Inserting a specially-trained 20 man team would have stopped it.
What did Obama know, and when did he know it?
What orders did he issue?
If none, why not?
If so, why were they not obeyed?
You lefties used to ask questions like this before your messiah was coronated king of America
Would have stopped it with no implications?
Would have saved the four lives?
You are not privy to information which would answer those questions.
The matter of rape.
Goes to the need to return to "family values" (i.e. the male in control) that is behind a lot of right wing thought. Anyone who doesn't believe a large element in the fringe right isn't reacting to a potential loss of power by white men is asleep.
We could lose three senate seats over this issue, when all they need to do right now is keep their mouth shut. Tom smith the GOP senate candidate in PA may have a shot if Casey does not resurrect what smith said early last spring. The same nonsense regarding rape.
The duck fears for the dead terrorists... that NOT appeasing them will incite them to ever greater acts of violence.
Grow the 'F up, duckboy.
Dim or burnt out bulbs are not only among our uneducated college students, they work in Washington too.
@ Ducky: Would have stopped it with no implications?
Would have saved the four lives?
Let's say, God forbid, your grandma and grandpa's house catches fire while your children are in there, the fire department fails to respond, and everyone dies.
Now, ask your same moronic questions again.
The matter of rape.
Goes to the need to return to "family values" (i.e. the male in control) that is behind a lot of right wing thought. Anyone who doesn't believe a large element in the fringe right isn't reacting to a potential loss of power by white men is asleep.
Even if nearly 70% of all the rapes committed in America are committed by black men? Exactly who are you empowering?
Anyone who doesn't notice that abortion services have been nearly exclusively marketed towards black women by the psuedoscientific eugenicists of the progressive left since the days Hitler was thumping Madison Grant and Margaret Sanger tomes like they were the Gospel is not just asleep, but comatose. Even far leftists like Mitt Romney created a way to subsidize abortions in Massachusetts so poor black women can co-pay on the left's population control measures for the cost of a handful of crack rocks.
You fringe righties talk as if the embassy attack was freaking Stalingrad. Yes, four people were killed.
Would a strike have prevented that?
Well, this "fringe rightie" wonders why we had an embassy in Libya so soon after helping al-Qaeda overthrow Quadafi, and given the relative freshness of that front line in the global kinetic military activity on man made disasters, why the potential for an attack there wasn't countered with increased security when the whole farce of putting an embassy there in the first place began.
Would a strike have caused more death?
Maybe. Maybe not. The attack lasted long enough for three waves of sorties out of Italy and the Med to fly out and return from levelling Benghazi. We could have taken out the Libyans that escaped Petraeus' surge against al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2007.
Would a strike have worsened the tensions in Libya ultimately causing more deaths?
That's a hypothetical, ultimately depending on how many Libyans we left standing to worsen tensions.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose."
Rape is always on Republicans minds because it is the only way they can get sex. Rape-publicans must change the definition of rape i order to legalize their criminal sexual actions.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose."
Why so, FreeThinke? It is a FACT that the majority of al Qaeda "insurgents" in post-Saddam Iraq, captured or killed, were Libyans.
It is a FACT that the "rebels" in Libya against the cowed scumbag Quadafi were / are al-Qaeda. Just ask Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, who proudly reported that many of his fighters were Libyans returned from Iraq after joining al-Qaeda there.
Now, we all should know from even the 79 illegal days of bombing Serbia over Kosovo during the Clintoon years that Democrat Presidents will leap at the chance to provide air support for al-Qaeda's ground forces. Now we've got an international Fast and Furious program providing them mortars and rocket propelled grenades.
Rape is always on Republicans minds because it is the only way they can get sex.
C'mon. If Anthony Weiner had tweeted his weener to the straight side of the internet, Andrew Breitbart would have never found it.
"The only people qualified to address the topic of rape are the rape victims themselves."
Very well stated AOW
"The only people qualified to address the topic of rape are the rape victims themselves."
...and THAT applies double for murder!
*shakes head*
"The only people qualified to address the topic of racism are the racism victims themselves."
All you white girls, to the BACK of the class, unless you are Jewish!
Me, too, Inspector?
No, you can stay, Cornfuzed... after all, we did share a cell.....
R-r-r-r-o-o-o-w-w-w-w!
Hopefully in six more days our long national nightmare will be over.
Oh, and President Jugears just landed in New York City.
Gosh that ought to help us.
Nice Try, Silver, but not all women are partisan hacks. They know that a President Romney could well mean a SCOTUS packed with backwards, buffet-Christian misogynists. Your party has turned into an amalgam of Luddites, Know Nothings, Dixiecrats, theocrats, and 19th century metal-currency Populists... why do you insist on pretending you're really all wise, intellectual grown-ups? You're not. The GOP is just a steaming pile of backwards misogynists and any woman who'd vote for that would have to be nothing more than a partisan hack.
JMJ
“Of course the right wing mind assumes that the use of military power is always effective but would it have been?”
Ducky, if you’re being beaten with a baseball bat, do you pick up a twig and negotiate your way out of the beating? Or do you pick up a 4x4 and lay on some hurt in return.
Military assault style weapons where being used. But nothing in return from our Commander-n chief.
I swear, the left just doesn’t want the US to fight back.
Bunch of F’en pussies!
Calling Jersey McJersey...
Who is Julian Assange to evade Sweden's rape laws? After all, he isn't a woman, so how can he judge "rape"?
Now bend over and take yours like a man!
Sob LIED to me to convince me to have consensual sex...
RAPE! RAPE! RAPE!
Quit arguing, Julian.... er-r-r-r, Titan. You're NOT a woman, so how can you POSSIBLY know what RAPE is!
Only a woman can know for SURE!
Oh I'm sorry to make you shake your head FJ. But there is a hint of truth to AOW's statement, as well as Fiddle's post. How can you or I argue about rape, or the consequences of a pregnancy occurring from rape?
How many times have you been raped, or even got pregnant? You guys want to debate it? Go for it. I'll join in the fun, but Fiddle is right. When you have a man debating it on national T.V., it is 100% political suicide.
@ Jersey: and any woman who'd vote for that would have to be nothing more than a partisan hack.
There goes another paternalistic liberal man telling women how to vote.
@beamish -- Would a strike have caused more death?
Maybe. Maybe not.
-------
Exactly. Thanks for admitting we're not clairvoyant.
Silver, Jersey didn't tell anyone how to vote.
He made a comment on the implications of the vote.
Like any wage slave who votes for Romney is voting for a reduced standard of living. Your choice, not a command.
@JOB
How many times have you been raped, or even got pregnant?
And how many times have you been murdered? Assaulted with a deadly weapon? Defrauded of your life savings? Buried in a cemetery?
Are you saying that those who have not experienced these crimes (or inherent inevitabilities) cannot speak to them? Have you ever been President of the United States? How DARE you presume to VOTE, then!
@Silverfiddle --- Let's say, God forbid, your grandma and grandpa's house catches fire while your children are in there, the fire department fails to respond, and everyone dies.
-----
As dumb an analogy as you can find.
What would be the negative implications of the department responding? None.
Pitch till you win, Ayn.
Hint: You're lousy on the ropes.
When you have a man debating it on national T.V., it is 100% political suicide.
Funny, but when women debate the Pro-Life position, they get rather roundly ridiculed, as well.
It has NOTHING to do with the politicians "sex" and EVERYTHING to do with the politically correct "ignorance" of the electorate.
Did we have an "OCTOBER SURPRISE" this year?
If so what do you think it might have been?
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said on Tuesday that federal aid for people impacted by Hurricane Sandy should be approved only with a specific spending plan in place so funds are not used for "Gucci bags and massage parlors," like after Hurricane Katrina.
"I want to get them the resources that are necessary to lift them out of this water and the sand and the ashes and the death that's over there in the East Coast and especially in the Northeast," King said during a Tuesday evening debate in Mason City, Iowa.
"But not one big shot to just open up the checkbook, because they spent it on Gucci bags and massage parlors and everything you can think of in addition to what was necessary," he said later, referring to Hurricane Katrina.
=========
Yes sir, your home is under water, your car floated away, no power, no heat. You just ran out of medication and food and what's on your mind?
Let's go to Saks for a new Gucci bag.
The objet petit 'a is unobtainable and always changing form, duckman. Man's desires know no limits. It's the engine of capitalism.
DuChamp's large glass "Bride Stripped Bare of her Bachelors".
btw Have YOU taken SRI's VALS survey, duckman? You should. ;)
The "hint of truth" in AOW's statement, JOB, is that ALL. women are jealous of male power, and will say anything to usurp it.
@Rape-publicans must change the definition of rape i order to legalize their criminal sexual actions.
Of course Gene's been getting all the sex he can handle since that yoga class at the local community college.
Gene and Steve need to heed the old adage, better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Oh, and Steve.... Bye!
To point out a logical fallacy please allow me to paraphrase:
When will the living learn to stop talking about murder?
Frankly, I don't think that ANY living men should attempt to address the topic of murder. They simply do not have the frame of reference required to hold forth on the topic.
Please... it's not men that shouldn't attempt to address the topic of rape, it's idiots that shouldn't attempt to address the topic of rape.
Cheers!
Ducky, pacifism only works when there are magnanimous and idealistic strongmen willing to defend you, otherwise you just get your lunch money swiped.
Jersey, really? I mean, really? Now wipe the spittle off your monitor and google 'ad hominem'. It's kind of boring debating an unarmed man.
FJ- "And how many times have you been murdered? Assaulted with a deadly weapon? Defrauded of your life savings? Buried in a cemetery?"
Murdered-0
Assaulted W/ deadly weapon-2
Defrauded of your life savings-0
Buried in a cemetery-0
"Are you saying that those who have not experienced these crimes (or inherent inevitabilities) cannot speak to them?"
Nope, that is not what I'm saying. We can speak about whatever we want. What I am saying is that a rape victim might have a little more insight on the matter as compared to someone who has not been raped.
"It has NOTHING to do with the politicians "sex" and EVERYTHING to do with the politically correct ignorance of the electorate."
I disagree. It shows the ignorance of the man debating. If you are going to spend $500,000,000 on a campaign to be elected to a job that you covet. I think you would be best served to figure out who you are campaigning to.
I will reaffirm my position. I agree with Silver when he writes that it is a no win situation for a man, running for office, starts talking about rape.
"The "hint of truth" in AOW's statement, JOB, is that ALL. women are jealous of male power, and will say anything to usurp it."
What makes you think that women are jealous of men's power? I'm just curious what you base that on?
What would be the negative implications of the department responding?
They could run over a small child while driving to the scene.
It is scary the lengths to which progressives will go to justify the president leaving people to die.
And Jersey used paternalistic and demeaning language towards women who express an opinion independent of his.
Typical leftwing male. His wife probably told him to say it.
Ducky: The Katrina aid money abuse was well documented.'
Government money is stupid money.
Duck said:
"Like any wage slave who votes for Romney is voting for a reduced standard of living. Your choice, not a command."
How completely out of touch with reality must one be to be a leftist? A higher standard of living comes from a vigorous economy, one that can and will be delivered by Romney but not Obama.
Soaring gas prices are actually advocated by Obama and Democrats, yet higher gas prices raise the cost of everything and fall most heavily on the poor. Romney will attempt to tap our untapped domestic resources and give the go ahead to the Canadian pipeline; this will not only create many new jobs, it will reduce the cost of living substantially.
You are so full of it Duck. You are a perfect reverse barometer of everything that is true, just and correct. In other words, a Democrat.
Who thinks more clearly, JOB, the dispassionate observer or the rape victim?
Pain is an "insight" that contributes little to deliberative thought. Victims make lousy "judges". If they didn't, we wouldn't need juries.
And a politician that tells the electorate what it WANTS to hear, instead of what it NEEDS to hear (like Obama) may have a better chance at getting "elected", but isn't worth a nickel as an executive or legislator
And I base my comment on the absurd notion that women seem to have that men aren't entitled to hold an opinion on the subject of abortion, and if they do, it's automatically inferior to a woman's.
Thanks for chiming in Stogie, and you make an excellent point.
It is hilarious when an Obama fanboy like Ducky talking about "reduced standard of living" when that is what Obama has brought us: Less jobs, higher food and energy prices and falling wages.
You don't need to tell us, Ducky. We're living a reduced standard of living in the Obama economy.
@Silverfiddle -- It also wrecks their early vote campaign, where they track down derelicts, welfare bums and others typical of the Democrat party demographic who have no clue what day or month it is, give them a bottle of hooch and a pack of smokes to entice them onto a bus to go vote for more free stuff.
-------
That's Silverfiddle over at the pathetic demented fuck Fredd's site.
They're laughing it up that Sandy will suppress the Obama vote.
Must be proud of yourself, Silver. I know Fredd is mentally ill but you surprise me.
Losers change the subject.
btw -the need for retribution and/or vengeance is a sign of weakness, NOT power. Only the powerful can afford to be charitable and exhibit mercy/grace. Thats how I know that most women are not yet "powerful" and are jealous of men's power. They must exact their vengeance on someone less powerful than themselves... the innocent and defenseless unborn.
@stogie --- How completely out of touch with reality must one be to be a leftist? A higher standard of living comes from a vigorous economy, one that can and will be delivered by Romney but not Obama.
--------
The wealth disparity s increasing and will increase more rapidly. That's what you fail to factor in as you make a damn fool of yourself with the "you don't understand reality" schoolyard bullshit.
You do realize that the pipeline is currently being built in Texas don't you (of course you don't)?
So Obama controls oil prices. Damn you're stupid.
And once Governor Olympics tries to bomb up Iran you wage slave suckers are really going to see something.
Sometimes I just have to shake my head after reading your looney, Beckian rants.
I would suppose you have to shake your head after reading "Fun with Dick and Jane".
"See Spot Run!"
"Run Spot Run!"
But keep at it, you'll understand one day.
Libmann, could you just keep shaking your head in silence and quit embarrassing yourself?
SF...from Madonna to Tinkerbell? :-)
The newest stories, proven through emails, etc., are SO sad...and still liberals on FOX are asking "but why would that affect votes?"
Why would a president's ignoring of pleas for help affect votes? Does character NEVER count with liberals? WHY NOT?
Titan,
What?
"Who is Julian Assange to evade Sweden's rape laws? After all, he isn't a woman, so how can he judge "rape"?"
What???
And then this, "Now bend over and take yours like a man!"
What?
You're a loony.
Guys, (as in serious, sane "guys")
This election holds a lot in the balance, and importantly with the courts. If you haven't been paying attention to state, local, and federal courts, this right-wing bent has been getting a little out of hand. They have become the legislating courts they say they disdain - let's face it, law breakers in their cases.
Congress has been over-reacting to the SCOTUS for a while now. There's a good reason for that. This congress is so over-the-top righty, not even the most conservative executive or court can accept their insanely unconstitutional requests.
Just the same, as we lean backwards to the right, we lose out on development, real development, like scientific, technical, mechanical, truly productive, domestic progress. The Courts we have today are troublesome enough. Why would anyone want more loonies on the benches of America?
I don't know why any Conservative or Libertarian would want a Republican Executive Branch to control the Courts right now. It seems reckless to me. It would cause such tumult as to exacerbate a host of expensive economic, religious, criminal, social ills.
Be smart, conservative voters - keep the government split. Think.
JMJ
Roll back the Obama excesses.... THEN split the government!
Jersey,
Don't be coy.
Is having sex w/ o a condom " rape" if the woman "regrets" consensual unprotected sex, the morning after?
Is Julian Assamga a "rapist"?
Assange...
And should "women alone" be allowed to define "rape".
We are thinking Jersey, and we are seeing with out own eyes the destruction Obama and the Pelosicrats have wrought.
"What dim bulbs like her don’t realize is that abortion is the law of the land, and no president can reverse it..."
Unfortunately that's true and the other thing these retards believe is this crazed liberal fantasy that as soon as a republican is elected to the white house, there will be jack-booted men kicking down their doors forcing them to close their legs and stop having frequent casual sex with men who have no intention of sticking around afterwards.
When you ask a liberal to list some of their reasons why they hate Conservatives, you'll find they're really hysterical and insane.
Okay, I'll get very specific....
1. In my 1970, my best friend, then in college, was beaten and raped by a diplomat who was untouchable. Internal damage extensive -- and the damage was permanent. Had she needed an abortion, I would not have condemned her for obtaining one. I would have helped her find a doctor.
2. Back in the early 1990s, a student in my 5th grade class was impregnated by her 17-year-old brother. She had an abortion.
3. My sister-in-law was kidnapped at knife point, held for three days, and repeatedly raped. She obtained a d&c as soon as possible -- when the police rescued her and took her to the hospital. Her rapist was extradited to Florida and executed. He raped 30 women and killed 3 -- confirmed, that is. Who knows how many he actually raped and/or killed?
4. A former colleague of mine had her pregnancy terminated at Georgetown University Medical Center on the advice of the doctors there because of gross deformities (among them, no cerebrum) and threat to the life of the mother -- and to her future fertility. She was in the second trimester of her first pregnancy at age 39. Two years later, she had a perfect baby boy.
So, I do not oppose abortions to terminate pregnancies caused by rape. And I'm not speaking of rape in the feminist sense, that is, regret with having had sexual relations with someone. In my view, rape is not the same as having sexual relations or getting carried away during a heavy-petting session. In other words, I don't hold with a gray definition of the word rape.
Now, sometimes a woman gets pregnant, and the pregnancy isn't convenient. I do understand that such women want to terminate the pregnancy, but doing so should not be after the first trimester. Period. But I do cut some slack to women who have an abortion ONCE AND ONCE ONLY. Let God be their Judge. I cannot!
NOTE: As God is my witness, I have never been raped, and all of the above is not about me personally! But I've lived long enough to make the above observations.
Furthermore, when a woman has a baby -- particularly the product of rape -- carrying that baby to term is a burden with severe mental consequences. Giving up for adoption that baby -- the product of rape or not -- is, in and of itself, a baby never forgotten.
The power of hormones not withstanding, voluntary sexual activity is a responsibility that has lifelong consequences for women. We are not walking vaginas!
Boy! This thread sure got far away fro Tinker Bell, right fast, didn't it?
Incredible what "free association" can deliver!
Did Tinker Bell and Peter ever have sex?
If so, did she ever get pregnant?
J.M. Barrie never said.
And isn't that a GREAT deal of Barrie's charm?
~ FT
Golly, AOW!
You seem to have been witness to a virtual PSYCHOPATHIA SEXUALIS in your life. Are you sure your maiden name wasn't Kraft-Ebbing? ;-)
I'm not doubting you for a second, but I am considerably older than you, and having been born in New York City -- often considered The Vortex of Vice, Sin, Perversion and Corruption by Outlanders -- and raised in the nearby suburbs I often wonder why tales of this nature never reached my ears when I was growing up?
I do have a wayward cousin who got pregnant at sixteen, carried the baby to term in secret, gave the baby up for adoption, then later married the father at the insistence of my exceedingly strait-laced aunt.
Family members were told my cousin was "going for a year abroad in Europe." No one questioned the tale. In actuality the poor girl was kept a virtual prisoner in a secret location till after the baby arrived. We never knew till many years later what had really happened.
She had two more children by the same father, but ran away with the carpenter who was installing new kitchen cabinets when her children were still babies, and promptly got pregnant with her second illegitimate child.
As luck would have it, the carpenter soon died of cancer leaving my cousin with three children she was ill equipped to support.
SO, she entered into a disastrous third marriage with an alcoholic wife beater and child molester. Ran away from him in the dead of night, then somehow married a very nice guy who gave her her fifth and final child. [I've neglected to mention so far that my cousin was very attractive. Her beauty was often compared to that of Liz Taylor whose behavior my cousin emulated -- unconsciously in all probability.]
Anyway, she decided one day she just "didn't love" the father of her fourth child anymore, so she pulled up stakes once again and divorced HIM after a few years of marriage.
Amazingly, she's been with her fifth and final husband, who is 12 years her junior, over 35 years now and seems to have "stabilized" at long last.
Her kids amazingly enough all turned out pretty well, and appear to get along with each other, though none of them had any advantages whatsoever growing up.
At least neither my wayward cousin, herself, nor any member of our family ever even CONSIDERED having an abortion throughout her wildly checkered career.
She just turned EIGHTY this year, and still holds herself aloof from what-remains-of our family, but remains close to all her children, who see her for what she is, but love her anyway.
Once again I reiterate the slogan:
"LIFE is a MYSTERY to be LIVED, NOT a PROBLEM to be SOLVED."
~ FT
Now here's MY point. With EVERY exception you make for "rape", "incest" and the "health of the mother" come the ABUSERS of those definitions (as with the new "marriage" including homosexuals). In the case of "RAPE" you get a re-definition of the term that makes criminals out of a-holes like Julian Assange. A woman's "regret" is NOT rape. An abortion resulting from rape implies a PROSECUTION of the rapist. Is THAT what we want, the criminalization of unprotected sex? Legislation of sex acts by "Take back the Night" lesbians?
Incest. Here again, we have a criminalization. Should the 17 year old brother have gone to PRISON so that the daughter could have a legal abortion? Would THAT result solve anything?
And btw - RAPE and Incest are already crimes. So why enter them all into the abortion argument at ALL?
Health of the mother. Now HERE we finally have a non-criminal exception that I might support. But WHAT is the definition of "health of the mother"? Is it her future "financial" health? Would carrying the baby further LITERALLY KILL the mother? Disable her? Or just affect her future "reproductive" health? Right now we have the health of the mother defined as purely her "mental" health. That is why 50 million American children have been aborted since Roe, and less than 1% of them were the result of rape/incest.
If a woman would LITERALLY die from carrying the baby to term, then abortion can be justified. SHORT of that, conception (the mere THOUGHT that one can get pregnant from the activity contemplated) is conception and murder is a murder.
If someone is going to die, IMO, REGARDLESS then let doctors save the well established life and KILL the less well established/viable life (as soon as possible).
Abortion for the sake of the "child" Down's Syndrome, etc., is IMO a poor excuse for murder, but an attractive one from a medical cost perspective If your worried about carrying a deformed child to term, then by all means, have a test-tube screened fertilized embryo implantation (and let the public PAY for it???). But once implanted, carry it to term.
I don't have a problem arguing over the future extent of the "health of the mother" MURDER/ abortion exception EXCEPT to say that the current "mental" health aka "whim" of the mother seems insufficient a deterrent to future PUBLICALLY PAID FOR HEALTH CARE.
Abortion is NOT birth control. It should, IMO, be a RARE (as it is EXPENSIVE) last resort. And as it WAS once upon a time a crime committed almost ENTIRELY by females, it needs a strict and NOT-CONFUSING "new" legal definition. Roe vs. Wade had one good thing going for it, it was clear. Abortion/ murder was de-criminalized almost entirely.
But now, with Obamacare, comes the new "doctor bill". The PUBLIC will be paying for it, as well as ALL birth control. And in the interest in keeping the bill as small as possible, perhaps the time has come to "push back" on the abortion/ murder exception a bit to try and influence the future behaviours of both women AND men and the corresponding COSTS that the PUBLIC (not private individuals) must now bear.
To make a long argument short, I didn't give a DAMN about abortion before you started making ME pay for OTHER people's mistakes. But now that you (liberal America) ARE going to make me pay for other people's mistakes, I'm gonna wring a pound of flesh out of your former "FREEDOMS" for it!
...and THAT applies DOUBLE for all you "AIDS enablers"!
FJ,
A woman's "regret" is NOT rape.
[...]
Abortion is NOT birth control. It should, IMO, be a RARE (as it is EXPENSIVE) last resort.
No argument there!
FT,
The cases that I spoke of are as nothing in numbers in comparison to normal situations.
My point is that such anomalies actually do exist. Victims in those situations should have an escape valve. First-trimester abortions provided such an escape valve.
I AM opposed to abortions past the first trimester -- unless a dire medical situation exists as in the case of my former colleague, who did agonize over the decision. That a Jesuit-run medical facility provided that abortion is testimony to the necessity for the procedure, IMO.
The situation today: a significant number of people seem to think that abortions should be provided (1) free and (2) on demand. I find such an attitude abhorrent.
FJ,
I didn't give a DAMN about abortion before you started making ME pay for OTHER people's mistakes.
I'll go along with that, too.
Back in the day, people figured out how to pay for abortions -- whether or not a violent rape was involved.
In my experience, when adults pay their own bills, they are more careful not to run up those bills again in the future.
Children who are the victims of rape -- and I DO mean CHILDREN, that's an entirely different story. As I mentioned earlier, I did encounter one girl who was impregnated as I described above. The matter was taken care of very quietly, and only a few people ever knew what had happened. Her brother, BTW, was tried and convicted for yet another later incidence of pedophilia. In looking back, I must conclude that he was some kind of psycho to do what he did over and over again to children.
FJ,
Right now we have the health of the mother defined as purely her "mental" health.
For the record, I have no truck with that "mental health" argument as a justification for abortion.
In the case of the former colleague whom I mentioned above, I recall that she was very physically ill because of something wrong with the child that she was carrying. Had she not been taking "extra precautions" during her pregnancy, the doctors said that the fetus would have been naturally expelled long before. Beyond that, I don't know more about her case -- except that it was termed "a freak case."
BTW, some who have had severely deformed children have turned them over to the state for care....In other words, you and I are footing the bill for those children -- for decades, I suppose. I'm not sure how such a turning over to the state is accomplished without total bankruptcy of the family, however. I saw some of those children in the pediatric wing of the nursing home where Mr. AOW was for five weeks three years ago. Awful! Just awful!
There are no easy answers to some of what we are discussing in this thread. That said, the cases about which I personally know are few and far between -- very much so, in fact.
I agree, AoW, there are no easy answers. But when you can't even weigh in just because you don't possess a vagina... well there's something wrong with the "discussion".
Titan,
Weighing in is not the problem.
What IS the problem is condemnatory comments from someone who says, "It is God's will if a raped woman gets pregnant." That was the starting point of this discussion.
You see, I know several who have had abortions for what I consider to be the wrong reasons. In fact, each of these women later regretted having taken the life of their child. One such woman said to me, "I did wrong. But I've been forgiven." Of course, she had only ONE abortion and did not use abortion as birth control.
Doctors of integrity have, for centuries, helped women to make the decision about abortion. I think that the idea of a decision being made "between a woman and her doctor" worked very well for a long time. I won't argue that the idea works now as abortion is now a business
How any woman can destroy the life inside her once she has felt that baby move inside her is beyond me! Many of those same women would work very hard to save the life of an animal but not of a human being?
Ultimately, the problem is the eroding of conscience, that is, "I'm going to do what's right for ME, and to hell with everyone else."
We are living in a hedonistic society, a society pervaded by moral relativism.
The Sexual Revolution has wrought something very terrible, IMO, as, in many ways, has the pill. The very idea that some men have is abhorrent in that men ASSUME that every woman they date is on the pill and, therefore, is obligated to put out. Sexual intercourse itself has become like drinking a glass of water -- or some people, both male and female, seem to think.
Ugh
Now saying that it's "G_d's Will" doesn't bother be. But then I suppose the fact that I'm a Deist, and not a Christian has something to do with that. It's like saying that it was "fate" or "karma".
Insh 'Alah/ojala. ;)
And yes, abortion and birth control have BOTH certainly de-Valued both sex and marriage. What was once the "cornerstone" of civilization is now just a paving stone.
The "sex" and "affection" tunnels have "parted company". ;)
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